Obama: First President to Acknowledge Non-Believers

luciano wrote:I dont think its a big deal, that's their president too, he just wanted to acknowledge all the citizens and their beliefs I think.

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Can't really see the point being made.

Harmless words, offering an inclusive society, something you might expect a lot of newly elected leaders to say.

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Chill out lady.

Jeez

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Yes.

Chill out.

Relax.

I was pointing out that there was no substance to the story, therefore, the person that put it together did so with the agenda of it being another cheapshot.

It's called my opinion.

Thanks

howdy wrote:I am not going to get into religion. Not at all for now. The subject makes me angry. What you say when it comes to religion depending on your view point seems can wind up offending people. Therefore for now I am not going to get into it with anyone about religion. When you attack someone beliefs about religion. You wind up attacking the person. So for me I am taking a break from that for now. Not saying it should not be discussed. I just don't want to.

HotParadox wrote:

howdy wrote:I am not going to get into religion. Not at all for now. The subject makes me angry. What you say when it comes to religion depending on your view point seems can wind up offending people. Therefore for now I am not going to get into it with anyone about religion. When you attack someone beliefs about religion. You wind up attacking the person. So for me I am taking a break from that for now. Not saying it should not be discussed. I just don't want to.

OK, fair enough. My point is that he did the right thing. We are all Americans and he should acknowledge atheists just as much as any other group. He is serving everybody. Not just people who believe in God.

HotParadox wrote:

howdy wrote:I am not going to get into religion. Not at all for now. The subject makes me angry. What you say when it comes to religion depending on your view point seems can wind up offending people. Therefore for now I am not going to get into it with anyone about religion. When you attack someone beliefs about religion. You wind up attacking the person. So for me I am taking a break from that for now. Not saying it should not be discussed. I just don't want to.

OK, fair enough. My point is that he did the right thing. We are all Americans and he should acknowledge atheists just as much as any other group. He is serving everybody. Not just people who believe in God.

Americanadian wrote:

HotParadox wrote:

howdy wrote:I am not going to get into religion. Not at all for now. The subject makes me angry. What you say when it comes to religion depending on your view point seems can wind up offending people. Therefore for now I am not going to get into it with anyone about religion. When you attack someone beliefs about religion. You wind up attacking the person. So for me I am taking a break from that for now. Not saying it should not be discussed. I just don't want to.

OK, fair enough. My point is that he did the right thing. We are all Americans and he should acknowledge atheists just as much as any other group. He is serving everybody. Not just people who believe in God.

I think it was commendable of Obama to include "non believers" in his address. I concur when you stated above that Obama is serving everybody, not just God.

I'm sure "Atheist" would have been a better word to use if one wanted to satisfy the media. Most likely, "non-believer" is almost a more derogatory term for those whom are devoid of any particular dogma.

So with that being stated, I will ask any atheist member on this forum if they care to give their opinion betwixt "non-believer" or "atheist" as more or less offensive and why, if applicable.

howdy wrote:I am not going to get into religion. Not at all for now. The subject makes me angry. What you say when it comes to religion depending on your view point seems can wind up offending people. Therefore for now I am not going to get into it with anyone about religion. When you attack someone beliefs about religion. You wind up attacking the person. So for me I am taking a break from that for now. Not saying it should not be discussed. I just don't want to.

Americanadian wrote:

howdy wrote:I am not going to get into religion. Not at all for now. The subject makes me angry. What you say when it comes to religion depending on your view point seems can wind up offending people. Therefore for now I am not going to get into it with anyone about religion. When you attack someone beliefs about religion. You wind up attacking the person. So for me I am taking a break from that for now. Not saying it should not be discussed. I just don't want to.

I believe America would be a better place if the next few JW's were peppered with paint balls on their next visit to a house where the owners have attempted every reasonable, respectful and insistent request for the JW's to stay away. Eventually, it seems extreme cases call for extreme measures.

Kazza wrote:
Well, they really mean the same thing. Atheist just means someone that doesn't have a belief in a supernatural being. I actually prefer non-believer to atheist. Atheist has come to represent those that actively believe that there is no god, rather than those that just lack a belief. I think there are far more of the latter than the former.

Americanadian wrote:

howdy wrote:I am not going to get into religion. Not at all for now. The subject makes me angry. What you say when it comes to religion depending on your view point seems can wind up offending people. Therefore for now I am not going to get into it with anyone about religion. When you attack someone beliefs about religion. You wind up attacking the person. So for me I am taking a break from that for now. Not saying it should not be discussed. I just don't want to.

That is simply because so many people are told to go out and convert others into their dogmatic organization. I have a problem with that. True Christianity should help and administer to others, lead by example and not impose on anyone.

People usually live in relative peace if their community or network consists of those whom always make it a rule to never discuss their beliefs unless asked, or where all share the same dogma.

All it takes is an over-zealous, theocratic loony to hold a grudge and get pissed off because someone rejected his absurdity because he couldn't answer some logical questions.

I believe America would be a better place if the next few JW's were peppered with paint balls on their next visit to a house where the owners have attempted every reasonable, respectful and insistent request for the JW's to stay away. Eventually, it seems extreme cases call for extreme measures.

I know you stated you didn't want to discuss religion per se, but how about a testimony of why it angers you and when/where it all started? I find it interesting to hear testimony from others whom have shared similar circumstances as I have. It usually begins in childhood, getting dragged from church-to-church, essentially looking for the "right" religion, or having religion crammed down your throat, threats of burning in hell if you don't do what you're told, or getting smacked over the head with a nice Holy Bible. Yeah...all that good stuff.

It isn't any accident that so many people turned away from religion, IMO. In fact, those whom purport to be "pounding the pavement" for God are essentially causing the opposite to occur because they've got it all wrong.

HotParadox wrote:Too funny, A! But messy.

Here's what works for me:

When I see them coming to my door, I grab my Bible, which I now keep handy to my door. They ring my door bell. I answer it and, without giving them a chance to say word one, I say to them: "Hi! I'm Valerie! Come on in and have a cup of coffee and a donut. I'd love to talk to you about Jesus and The Holy Bible".

As I'm obnoxiously spouting off stuff about Jesus, they run like hell. I kid you not, I do this every time to every one of them and I've never had the same one come back twice or had a single one accept my gracious offer for coffee and Jesus donuts.

Good thing. We don't eat donuts!

HotParadox wrote:You sure are purdy, doggie boy.

CarolinaHound wrote:
I agree with you sir.
My parents never dragged me to church except for weddings and funnerals. They might go but never forced me to. When I asked, they let me know what they believed and left it to me to decide. I was damned lucky to have some great parents though.

I haven't had the JW's in awhile. The morrmons popped up a couple years ago. I opened the door in my underwear, holding the shotgun I was cleaning. Smiled real big and showed off that front tooth that I have missing, said "Howdie boys.". They said have a nice day turned and left and head off away from the river. never seen none of em again.

Americanadian wrote:

HotParadox wrote:Too funny, A! But messy.

Here's what works for me:

When I see them coming to my door, I grab my Bible, which I now keep handy to my door. They ring my door bell. I answer it and, without giving them a chance to say word one, I say to them: "Hi! I'm Valerie! Come on in and have a cup of coffee and a donut. I'd love to talk to you about Jesus and The Holy Bible".

As I'm obnoxiously spouting off stuff about Jesus, they run like hell. I kid you not, I do this every time to every one of them and I've never had the same one come back twice or had a single one accept my gracious offer for coffee and Jesus donuts.

Good thing. We don't eat donuts!

Some of them aren't too bad, but some are adamant in remaining on your doorstep after being politely asked to depart at their earliest convenience. Visions of bad decisions end up clouding the cognitive reasoning process in the frontal lobe.

I suppose one could purchase a Strait Jacket costume designed to look genuine and drool a little on the way to the door to greet them; "Hi...my name is Mumbles...can you help me out of this thing? I really need to scratch my ass."

HotParadox wrote:Quote:
"In his inaugural address, President Obama said: 'We will not apologize for our way of life, nor will we waver in its defense, and for those who seek to advance their aims by inducing terror and slaughtering innocents, we say to you now that our spirit is stronger and cannot be broken; you cannot outlast us, and we will defeat you. For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus and non-believers.'"

*************************

I don't have a problem with this. Why? Because WE ARE a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus and non-believers.

How is this a threat to people of faith or traditionalists? Are we not supposed to love each other as our brother? Or are we just paying lip-service to the words of Jesus?

Or do people of faith and/or traditionalists not see this as a big deal?


What's your viewpoint?

The article is here:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-01-20-obama-non-believers_N.htm

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:I was pointing out that there was no substance to the story, therefore, the person that put it together did so with the agenda of it being another cheapshot.

Yet in its rhetoric and references, and in Obama's "almost musical delivery," it was thoroughly expressive of a black and Christian man........

HotParadox wrote:

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Yes.

Chill out.

Relax.

I was pointing out that there was no substance to the story, therefore, the person that put it together did so with the agenda of it being another cheapshot.

It's called my opinion.

Thanks

What opinion? "Can't really see the point being made." By whom? The article? Me? You didn't clarify, or add anything. Just kind of left it there. I took it differently than you apparently meant it.

catch-22 wrote:

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:I was pointing out that there was no substance to the story, therefore, the person that put it together did so with the agenda of it being another cheapshot.

I thought there was a great deal of substance to the story and I think there will be more references to Obama's background as a black American. The struggles of non -white Americans and the consequent triumphs gives him a profound sense of passion and compassion. Something which this planet as a whole has sadly been lacking of late.

PaulM wrote:Quote:
"In his inaugural address, President Obama said: 'We will not apologize for our way of life, nor will we waver in its defense, and for those who seek to advance their aims by inducing terror and slaughtering innocents, we say to you now that our spirit is stronger and cannot be broken; you cannot outlast us, and we will defeat you. For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus and non-believers.'"

Excellent statement. I don't recall hearing a President say anything similar before.

Old Timer wrote:Well I guess that I had better put my 2 cents in also. I firmly believe that it is the right of each and every person in this great country of ours wether or not they are a citizen or not, live here or not or just visiting, to worship what ever God they may chose or perhaps chose not to worship any God at all.

That right was granted to them under the United States Constutution and they do not have to answer to anyone at all fo what ever they chose to or not to believe.

Yet there are those that will condem those that do believe and those that will condem thosse that do not believe.

Why is it that you want others to respect you in your beliefs but you do not want to grant that same courtesy to them in return?

I am not adressing this to those that have a belief in any one or more faith, nor to those that do not have any belief at all. But rather to all concerned with the religious aspect here.

I believe that you have the right to disagree with but not to condem those that do not believe as you do. Talk, debate and question the other persons beliefs or lack of yes. But to become angered over it no. If you want to be respected for what you believe in and the way you believe, then respect the other person in return for what they believe and how they do it. If you cannot do this then perhaps you should remain silent on the matter.

And that is more that I have said about this subject in many years. I believe that you must be at peace with yourself before you can be at peace with someone else when discusing things like this.

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Can't really see the point being made.

Harmless words, offering an inclusive society, something you might expect a lot of newly elected leaders to say.

Something you might expect but has never been spoken before...he made me feel inclusive to the process as an Atheist. Good Stuff!!!

HotParadox wrote:

catch-22 wrote:

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:I was pointing out that there was no substance to the story, therefore, the person that put it together did so with the agenda of it being another cheapshot.

I thought there was a great deal of substance to the story and I think there will be more references to Obama's background as a black American. The struggles of non -white Americans and the consequent triumphs gives him a profound sense of passion and compassion. Something which this planet as a whole has sadly been lacking of late.

I was very impressed with the story, C. I think BO hit one out of the park by acknowledging every American and the author of this piece, I thought, highlighted the positives in BO's speech.

Peregrine wrote:

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Can't really see the point being made.

Harmless words, offering an inclusive society, something you might expect a lot of newly elected leaders to say.

Something you might expect but has never been spoken before...he made me feel inclusive to the process as an Atheist. Good Stuff!!!

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Well said, OT.

The difficulty is, and I have always found this, is that the 'believers' seem to take any critique of their religion like an attack on them.

It is boring.

catch-22 wrote:

HotParadox wrote:

catch-22 wrote:

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:I was pointing out that there was no substance to the story, therefore, the person that put it together did so with the agenda of it being another cheapshot.

I thought there was a great deal of substance to the story and I think there will be more references to Obama's background as a black American. The struggles of non -white Americans and the consequent triumphs gives him a profound sense of passion and compassion. Something which this planet as a whole has sadly been lacking of late.

I was very impressed with the story, C. I think BO hit one out of the park by acknowledging every American and the author of this piece, I thought, highlighted the positives in BO's speech.

He also said, in an interview, that although there is much to be done, it's the American people who are going to have to do most of the work to get us back on track.
That was what I saw as the main message Obama was putting forward throughout his whole campaign and that is why I voted for him.

If he can pull us together so we take an interest in making things better rather than driving a wedge between us, he just might be able to undo the damage that has been done to us over the last 8 years.

I imagine there will be times when he wishes he didn't get lumbered with all the crap left by Bush, but if he has the support of the people by drawing them together, who knows, maybe we will regain some of the lost respect. I also think the rest of the world will be very watchful of our behavior and if they see some radical changes in a postive way, they will react in the same way.