Major General says president's eligibility needs proof

by Frankg Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:16 pm

Major General says president's eligibility needs proof
'Most important, what I really want is the truth'

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Posted: February 26, 2009
11:40 pm Eastern
By Bob Unruh

2009 WorldNetDaily

Retired Maj. Gen. Carroll Childers

On the heels of two active duty members of the U.S. military serving in Iraq calling for President Obama to prove his eligibility to be president, a retired major general has agreed to join the case, saying he just wants "the truth."

WND reported earlier when 1st Lt. Scott Easterling confirmed to California attorney Orly Taitz that he wanted to be a plaintiff in the legal action she is preparing on behalf of members of the U.S. military, both active and retired. A second soldier who asked that his name be withheld for now became part of the action just a day later.

Now retired Maj. Gen. Carroll D. Childers has submitted a statement to Taitz and her DefendOurFreedoms.us website, agreeing to be a plaintiff in her pending action.

"I agree to be a plaintiff in the legal action to be filed by Orly Taitz, Esq. in a petition for a declaratory judgement (sic) that Barack Hussein Obama is not qualified to be president of the U.S., nor to be commander in chief of the U.S. armed forces, in that I am or was a sworn member of the U.S. military (subject to recall)," he wrote.

If recalled, he would be "unable to follow any orders given by a constitutionally unqualified commander in chief, since by doing so I would be subject to charges of aiding and abetting fraud and committing acts of treason," he wrote.

In an accompanying letter, Childers said, "What I really want is the truth; is Obama a natural born citizen of the United States. If not a natural born citizen, America has been defrauded and then we would be stuck with Joe Biden whose only redeeming attribute is that he is probably not a communist."

He said he is an engineer after serving for 38 years in Vietnam, the Persian Gulf, Operation Desert Storm and other locations.

Childers said there were a long list of reasons he didn't support Obama for president, including "his crime associates in the USA … his promise to make coal power industry bankrupt … his spread the wealth admission … his associations with foreign leaders unfriendly to the USA … (and his lack of) integrity."

But he said he believes Obama is not eligible to be president, a claim Obama spokesmen have described to WND as "garbage."

WND has reported on multiple legal challenges to Obama's status as a "natural born citizen." The Constitution, Article 2, Section 1, states, "No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President."

Some of the lawsuits question whether he was actually born in Hawaii, as he insists. If he was born out of the country, Obama's American mother, the suits contend, was too young at the time of his birth to confer American citizenship to her son under the law at the time.

Other challenges have focused on Obama's citizenship through his father, a Kenyan subject to the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom at the time of his birth, thus making him a dual citizen. The cases contend the framers of the Constitution excluded dual citizens from qualifying as natural born.

Where's the proof Barack Obama was born in the U.S. or that he fulfills the "natural-born American" clause in the Constitution? If you still want to see it, join more than 290,000 others and sign up now!

Several of the cases have involved emergency appeals to the U.S. Supreme Court in which justices have declined to hear arguments. Among the cases turned down without a hearing at the high court have been petitions by Philip Berg, Cort Wrotnowski, Leo Donofrio and Taitz.

Military.com reported Easterling's concerns following WND's report and confirmed that Army officials said they were aware of the lieutenant's letter. The officials, Military.com said, are trying to balance the "military requirements under the Uniform Code of Military Justice versus critical freedoms that all Americans enjoy."

Commenters on the website called the soldier "a delusional racist," "moronic and irrelevent (sic)," and undeserving of his uniform.

However, some defended him.

"The questions about the POTUS and his birth were questions raised during the campaign – quite often in this website. This question was not always answered in a fashion which was clear cut yea or nay," said one forum contributor. "There are lawsuits ongoing – therefore there are other doubters."

Said another, "If anybody does their research they find out that a full investigation was conducted regarding McCain's eligibility (born on a military base on foreign soil), but no such investigation was done for BO. BO admits to traveling to Pakistan in 1981, when it was illegal to do so for US citizens at the time, how did he pull that off?

"Open your eyes, lemmmings (sic)," the participant wrote.

Another pointed out that the lieutenant certainly has a right to his opinion, but most importantly, he is staying true to his duty.

"All of your rhetoric truly makes me question your morality. Some of you say that this LT needs to be reprimanded in this way or that, but what you people forget to see through your blinders is that this LT is still fighting the fight, no matter what. He still is part of the reason you have the right to say the things you do. He still believes the American way of life is still precious and should stay that way no matter what. And whether he chooses his God given freedom to voice that God given right is up to him."

Another had a pointed comment about the entire issue.

"Why doesn't the president just put his credentials out there and stop all the speculation?"

Another member of the military who contacted WND, who identified himself only by his initials, explained: "I am in the United States Air Force and I had to produce my birth certificate to enter the service. What documents did Mr. Obama use to enter in the race for president? I had to produce my birth certificate to have a passport issued. Does Mr. Obama have a passport? What documents did he use to get it? My children have to produce their birth certificate to get a driver's license. Does Mr. Obama have a driver's license? What documents did he use to get it? I had to produce a birth certificate to get a Social Security number issued for me and my children. Does Mr. Obama have a Social Security number issued? What documents did he use to get it? "

Taitz explained the issue isn't resolved as many Obama supporters claim.

The "Certification of Live Birth" posted on the Internet actually doesn't confirm a birth location.

"[Hawaii] statute 138 allows foreign born children of HI residents to get HI [Certificates of Live Birth] and get them based on a statement of one relative only," she said.

She also said Hawaiian officials, while they confirmed a birth certificate exists, did not exclude the possibility it was "one obtained for a foreign born child."

She also cited Obama's immigration to Indonesia at age 5, when he was considered an Indonesian citizen.

Also, in a case being handled largely by Gary Kreep of the United States Justice Foundation in California, lawyers hired to represent Obama have admitted that such disputes should have been resolved in Congress.

That case is seeking documentation of Obama's attendance at Occidental College, and in an effort to keep all of those records secret, a law firm has argued that state and federal courts have no authority over the case.

"Federal law establishes the procedure for election of the President and Vice President and provides the exclusive means for challenges to their qualifications," the court filing said. In the absence of objections filed by members of the Senate and House of Representatives, "which would have been resolved by those bodies," Obama was declared the president.

Here is a partial listing and status update for some of the cases over Obama's eligibility:

New Jersey attorney Mario Apuzzo has filed a case on behalf of Charles Kerchner and others alleging Congress didn't properly ascertain that Obama is qualified to hold the office of president.

Pennsylvania Democrat Philip Berg has three cases pending, including Berg vs. Obama in the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, a separate Berg vs. Obama which is under seal at the U.S. District Court level and Hollister vs. Soetoro a/k/a Obama, brought on behalf of a retired military member who could be facing recall to active duty by Obama.

Leo Donofrio of New Jersey filed a lawsuit claiming Obama's dual citizenship disqualified him from serving as president. His case was considered in conference by the U.S. Supreme Court but denied a full hearing.

Cort Wrotnowski filed suit against Connecticut's secretary of state, making a similar argument to Donofrio. His case was considered in conference by the U.S. Supreme Court, but was denied a full hearing.

Former presidential candidate Alan Keyes headlines a list of people filing a suit in California, in a case handled by the United States Justice Foundation, that asks the secretary of state to refuse to allow the state's 55 Electoral College votes to be cast in the 2008 presidential election until Obama verifies his eligibility to hold the office. The case is pending, and lawyers are seeking the public's support.

Chicago attorney Andy Martin sought legal action requiring Hawaii Gov. Linda Lingle to release Obama's vital statistics record. The case was dismissed by Hawaii Circuit Court Judge Bert Ayabe.

Lt. Col. Donald Sullivan sought a temporary restraining order to stop the Electoral College vote in North Carolina until Barack Obama's eligibility could be confirmed, alleging doubt about Obama's citizenship. His case was denied.

In Ohio, David M. Neal sued to force the secretary of state to request documents from the Federal Elections Commission, the Democratic National Committee, the Ohio Democratic Party and Obama to show the presidential candidate was born in Hawaii. The case was denied.

In Washington state, Steven Marquis sued the secretary of state seeking a determination on Obama's citizenship. The case was denied.

In Georgia, Rev. Tom Terry asked the state Supreme Court to authenticate Obama's birth certificate. His request for an injunction against Georgia's secretary of state was denied by Georgia Superior Court Judge Jerry W. Baxter.

California attorney Orly Taitz has brought a case, Lightfoot vs. Bowen, on behalf of Gail Lightfoot, the vice presidential candidate on the ballot with Ron Paul, four electors and two registered voters.
In addition, other cases cited on the RightSideofLife blog as raising questions about Obama's eligibility include:

In Texas, Darrel Hunter vs. Obama later was dismissed.

In Ohio, Gordon Stamper vs. U.S. later was dismissed.

In Texas, Brockhausen vs. Andrade.

In Washington, L. Charles Cohen vs. Obama.

In Hawaii, Keyes vs. Lingle, dismissed.
WND senior reporter Jerome Corsi had gone to both Kenya and Hawaii prior to the election to investigate issues surrounding Obama's birth. But his research and discoveries only raised more questions, the biggest being why, if there exists documentation of Obama's eligibility, hasn't it been released to quell the rumors.

Instead, a series of law firms have been hired on Obama's behalf around the nation to prevent any public access to his birth certificate, passport records, college records and other documents.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=90125

by **Grim17** Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:23 pm

I believe the man is eligble, but I would also like him to prove it.

I don't know how anyone could object to such a request.

by **Peregrine(Endangered)** Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:27 pm

By Alex Koppelman

Dec. 5, 2008 | Barack Obama can't be president: He wasn't really born in Hawaii, and the certification of live birth his campaign released is a forgery. He was born in Kenya. Or maybe Indonesia. Or, wait, maybe he was born in Hawaii -- but that doesn't matter, since he was also a British citizen at birth because of his father, and you can't be a "natural-born citizen" in that case. (But then, maybe his "father" wasn't really his father; maybe his real dad was an obscure communist poet. Or Malcolm X.)

You might think these rumors would have died off after Obama produced proof in June that he was, in fact, born in Hawaii to an American citizen, his mother, Ann, or after Hawaii state officials confirmed in October that he was born there. You might think the rumors would have died off after he was elected by a comfortable margin. Instead, they've intensified. There have been paid advertisements in the Chicago Tribune questioning the president-elect's birth certificate and eligibility, and one group is raising money to run a similar ad on television. The right-wing Web site WorldNetDaily has been reporting on the issue almost nonstop. Numerous plaintiffs have filed lawsuits in various states. And Friday, the Supreme Court's nine justices will decide whether they want to hear one of those suits, which also contends that John McCain, born in the former Panama Canal Zone, does not meet the Constitution's requirements to hold the presidency.

The people hoping this is a sign the court will agree with them and stop Obama from becoming president are almost certain to be let down. The fact that the case has gone to conference doesn't mean anything about its merits -- the court will also be deciding whether to take up a number of other cases, and the chances that the suit will actually be heard is exceedingly small. Eugene Volokh, a law professor at UCLA, has calculated that over the past eight years the court has considered in conference 842 cases that sought a stay. Only 60 of them were actually heard. Seven hundred and eighty-two were denied.

But that doesn't matter. The faux controversy isn't going to go away soon. Yes, Obama was born in Hawaii, and yes, he is eligible to be president. But according to several experts in conspiracy theories, and in the psychology of people who believe in conspiracy theories, there's little chance those people who think Obama is barred from the presidency will ever be convinced otherwise. "There's no amount of evidence or data that will change somebody's mind," says Michael Shermer, who is the publisher of Skeptic magazine and a columnist for Scientific American, and who holds an undergraduate and a master's degree in psychology. "The more data you present a person, the more they doubt it ... Once you're committed, especially behaviorally committed or financially committed, the more impossible it becomes to change your mind."

Any inconvenient facts are irrelevant. People who believe in a conspiracy theory "develop a selective perception, their mind refuses to accept contrary evidence," Chip Berlet, a senior analyst with Political Research Associates who studies such theories, says. "As soon as you criticize a conspiracy theory, you become part of the conspiracy."

Evan Harrington, a social psychologist who is an associate professor at the Chicago School of Professional Psychology, agrees. "One of the tendencies of the conspiracy notion, the whole appeal, is that a lot of the information the believer has is secret or special," Harrington says. "The real evidence is out there, [and] you can give them all this evidence, but they'll have convenient ways to discredit [it]."

Whatever can't be ignored can be twisted to fit into the narrative; every new disclosure of something that should, by rights, end the controversy only opens up new questions, identifies new plotters. Perhaps the most common argument of those questioning Obama's eligibility is that he should just release his full, original birth certificate, rather than the shorter certification, which is a copy. His failure to do so only proves there is reason to be suspicious, they say, and if the document was released, the issue would go away. But that's unlikely. It was, after all, the Obama campaign's release of the certification this summer that stoked the fever of conspiracy mongers.

For believers, it works like this: So what if Dr. Chiyome Fukino, the director of Hawaii's Department of Health, released a statement saying she has verified that the state has the original birth certificate on record? So what if she said separately that the certification looks identical to one she was issued for her own Hawaii birth certificate? Why didn't her statement specify Obama's birthplace? So what if a Hawaii Health Department spokeswoman later clarified that Fukino meant that Obama was born in Hawaii? So what if researchers for FactCheck.org actually saw the physical copy of the certification and debunked much of the key "evidence" supposedly proving that the image posted online is a forgery? They're not really independent. They're funded by the Annenberg Public Policy Center, and Obama once (with Bill Ayers, no less) ran an entirely unrelated program that happened to be paid for with money donated by Walter Annenberg. And on and on and on.

If the long-form birth certificate were released, with its unequivocal identification of Hawaii as Obama's place of birth, the cycle would almost certainly continue. Rush Limbaugh already suggested that Obama's trip to Hawaii to see his ailing grandmother, who died not long after, was somehow connected to the controversy. Others, like Michael Savage, followed Limbaugh's lead, saying Obama was going to Hawaii to alter the record.

Not surprisingly, almost all of the people who've been most prominent in pushing this story have a history of conspiracist thought. There's Jerome Corsi, who's best known as the co-author of the book that launched the Swift boat vets; he's a chief proponent of the claim that the government is secretly planning to form a "North American Union" with Canada and Mexico. Philip Berg, who filed the lawsuit that had until now drawn the most public attention, is a 9/11 Truther. Andy Martin, who's credited with starting the myth that Obama is a Muslim and has been intimately involved in the birth certificate mess as well, was denied admission to the Illinois bar because of a psychiatric evaluation that showed he had "moderately severe character defect manifested by well-documented ideation with a paranoid flavor and a grandiose character." He also has a long history of anti-Semitism. Robert Schulz, who's responsible for the ads in the Tribune, is a fairly notorious tax protester. In 2007, a federal judge ordered Schulz to shutter his Web site because he and his organization were, in the words of the Justice Department's Tax Division, using the site to promote "a nationwide tax-fraud scheme."

We could be dealing with the repercussions of the tangled web these people have woven for years after Obama is inaugurated. We already have some hints of what's to come. Gary Kreep, who heads the United States Justice Foundation and is representing Alan Keyes in one of the lawsuits over the president-elect's eligibility, has said his group will file suit to challenge each and every one of Obama's actions as president.

He may well inspire others. There are a surprising number of people out there -- tax protesters, for instance -- who rely on similarly creative legal thinking based on conspiracy theories for their defense. So don't be too surprised if, sometime after Jan. 20, defendants in federal trials suddenly claim they can't be prosecuted. If Obama isn't really president, then laws he signs have no effect, Department of Justice prosecutors have no authority and judges he appoints aren't legally judges. Anyone who tells you otherwise is just part of the conspiracy.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/12/05/birth_certificate/

Why wasn't this question of birthplace not brought up when he was running for the Senate???? Why now???
The republicans are such sore losers...they are wondering in the desert without direction.

by **Grim17** Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:44 pm

Peregrine(Endangered) wrote:Why wasn't this question of birthplace not brought up when he was running for the Senate???? Why now???
The republicans are such sore losers...they are wondering in the desert without direction.

The reason it wasn't brought up when he ran for senate, is because being a natural born citizen isn't a requirement to become a senator.

Nobody is a "sore loser" here... These same people were asking for him to prove his citizenship months before he was elected president. Providing a copy of a certificate of live birth isn't the same as providing your birth certificate.

I still don't see how asking for the man to prove his citizenship is an unreasonable request. Must be a "liberal" thing.

by **HotParadox** Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:18 pm

P, This has nothing to do with being a sore loser. This is doing what is required by the law and apparently it was not. If a Republican did this, P, would you still cry sore loser or would you demand that the law be followed? What was asked of him is what is required and, if anything, Democrats should be saying that the Republicans were correct in the basic premise of what they were asking of BO. I still don't get how it was given the slide, and I would say that regardless of the candidate's party because I happen to be a correct person when it come to following the law.

by Americanadian Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:17 am

WND Frankie?? LOL...

How did Obama become a candidate for President if he wasn't a natural born citizen? It would be an egregious error for the country to even permit him to run if proof wasn't already provided. This is something that obviously wasn't printed in the media and an oversight perhaps?

If not, it will be interesting to watch.

by **HotParadox** Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:58 am

Americanadian wrote:WND Frankie?? LOL...

How did Obama become a candidate for President if he wasn't a natural born citizen? It would be an egregious error for the country to even permit him to run if proof wasn't already provided. This is something that obviously wasn't printed in the media and an oversight perhaps?

If not, it will be interesting to watch.

I don't see how that could have happened either, AC. There was an ongoing thing about it when he was running, but he never really showed proof. I don't know why BO didn't just put the discussion to rest by just showing his proof and saying screw you to the media who was nurturing this thing. That's what I would do if I was accused of something. I would present my proof and be done with it.

by **Peregrine(Endangered)** Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:30 am

In my state birth is announced with a "birth certificate" In Hawaii they call it "certificate of live birth" His live birth certificate has been put on the internet...Lisan23 explained this in one of her posts. Maybe she will respond again....its over...he is legally our President..He could not of run for President if he had not satisfied this requirement...It just would not have happened.

by **HotParadox** Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:40 am

Peregrine(Endangered) wrote:In my state birth is announced with a "birth certificate" In Hawaii they call it "certificate of live birth" His live birth certificate has been put on the internet...Lisan23 explained this in one of her posts. Maybe she will respond again....its over...he is legally our President..He could not of run for President if he had not satisfied this requirement...It just would not have happened.

That is my personal opinion, too.

by Cartoon Head Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:55 am

Americanadian wrote:WND Frankie?? LOL...

How did Obama become a candidate for President if he wasn't a natural born citizen? It would be an egregious error for the country to even permit him to run if proof wasn't already provided. This is something that obviously wasn't printed in the media and an oversight perhaps?

If not, it will be interesting to watch.

Indeed.

I thought this one would die a dignified death, when the man took formal office at the White House.

Only an absolute idiot would give the premise any credibility.

It barely even warrants being in the conspiracy theory section.

Are we going to have to put up with this bollocks for the next four years.... Rolling Eyes

by **Peregrine(Endangered)** Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:34 pm

Americanadian wrote:WND Frankie?? LOL...

How did Obama become a candidate for President if he wasn't a natural born citizen? It would be an egregious error for the country to even permit him to run if proof wasn't already provided. This is something that obviously wasn't printed in the media and an oversight perhaps?

If not, it will be interesting to watch.

all the complaints(law suites) are from lay persons...I'm not aware of any government officials supporting this claim... So let the blind lead the blind..carry on

by Guest Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:42 pm

I'm here, AC. A certificate of live birth IS a birth certificate in several states, including Hawaii and Idaho - where I was born. I don't have a birth certificate, and I can't get one. I can get a certificate of live birth which allows me to get a drivers license and is considered a birth certificate in both Utah and Wyoming (where I've gotten driver's licenses). It's also worked to provide proof to employers that I am a US citizen.

The state of Hawaii's website says "Certificate of Birth" on it, I've also called and they told me that they do not issue birth certificates - ONLY certificates of live birth which IS their birth certificate.

So... again, if Obama isn't a US citizen, then neither am I or all the other people born in Hawaii and Idaho that are not issued birth certificates, but certificates of live birth. (Which are birth certificates under a different name.)

by Cartoon Head Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:00 pm

This is what it comes down to.

The neo cons cannot tolerate the fact that in a democratic election, that their representatives did not win.

Due to that, and in their childish petulance, they scrape the tin, looking for something, anything, to cling on to.

Then of course we have others, perhaps not nesc Republican Neo Cons, and there motive to this straw clutching is that, deep down, it irks them that a non white man got the nod.

by **HotParadox** Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:18 pm

lisan23 wrote:I'm here, AC. A certificate of live birth IS a birth certificate in several states, including Hawaii and Idaho - where I was born. I don't have a birth certificate, and I can't get one. I can get a certificate of live birth which allows me to get a drivers license and is considered a birth certificate in both Utah and Wyoming (where I've gotten driver's licenses). It's also worked to provide proof to employers that I am a US citizen.

The state of Hawaii's website says "Certificate of Birth" on it, I've also called and they told me that they do not issue birth certificates - ONLY certificates of live birth which IS their birth certificate.

So... again, if Obama isn't a US citizen, then neither am I or all the other people born in Hawaii and Idaho that are not issued birth certificates, but certificates of live birth. (Which are birth certificates under a different name.)

Excellent explanation, lisan. Maybe this will put it to rest then! Suspect

...I hope so, anyway. Very Happy

by Guest Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:19 pm

HotParadox wrote:
lisan23 wrote:I'm here, AC. A certificate of live birth IS a birth certificate in several states, including Hawaii and Idaho - where I was born. I don't have a birth certificate, and I can't get one. I can get a certificate of live birth which allows me to get a drivers license and is considered a birth certificate in both Utah and Wyoming (where I've gotten driver's licenses). It's also worked to provide proof to employers that I am a US citizen.

The state of Hawaii's website says "Certificate of Birth" on it, I've also called and they told me that they do not issue birth certificates - ONLY certificates of live birth which IS their birth certificate.

So... again, if Obama isn't a US citizen, then neither am I or all the other people born in Hawaii and Idaho that are not issued birth certificates, but certificates of live birth. (Which are birth certificates under a different name.)
Excellent explanation, lisan. Maybe this will put it to rest then! ...I hope so, anyway.

It hasn't before, I doubt it will now. The typical response is that I am a citizen, but Obama needs to prove he is still without any further explanation.

by **HotParadox** Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:26 pm

I know, lisan. I hear ya. Hey, did you get my PM the other day? Just wondering.

by **Peregrine(Endangered)** Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:29 pm

Maybe this needs to move to the conspiracy thread?????

by **HotParadox** Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:39 pm

Cartoon Head wrote:This is what it comes down to.

The neo cons cannot tolerate the fact that in a democratic election, that their representatives did not win.

Due to that, and in their childish petulance, they scrape the tin, looking for something, anything, to cling on to.

Then of course we have others, perhaps not nesc Republican Neo Cons, and there motive to this straw clutching is that, deep down, it irks them that a non white man got the nod.

Then they should re-think their irk, because BO's mother is white. Of course, it is also curious that he refers to himself as black. At least, it strikes me as odd, since he is 50% white, and the other half is mixed.

by **box86rowh** Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:42 pm

First off, the one posted on factcheck.org was never verified as real and as for the state of HI confirming the birth certificate, they never actually said if it confirmed him to be a citizen, just that it was there...
I also think he is a natural born citizen, but please show some proof and stop hiding behind lawyers...

by Cartoon Head Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:47 pm

HotParadox wrote:
Cartoon Head wrote:This is what it comes down to.

The neo cons cannot tolerate the fact that in a democratic election, that their representatives did not win.

Due to that, and in their childish petulance, they scrape the tin, looking for something, anything, to cling on to.

Then of course we have others, perhaps not nesc Republican Neo Cons, and there motive to this straw clutching is that, deep down, it irks them that a non white man got the nod.
Then they should re-think their irk, because BO's mother is white. Of course, it is also curious that he refers to himself as black. At least, it strikes me as odd, since he is 50% white, and the other half is mixed.

But that is not the way hard core racists think.

In their eyes, the most cardinal sin is to race mix.

Therefore, not only would they see him as black, they would see him as being something 'worse' than black.

I am glad I don't live inside their heads.

But they are out there.

Not just a tiny minority.

by Cartoon Head Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:48 pm

Peregrine(Endangered) wrote:Maybe this needs to move to the conspiracy thread?????

Seconded.

*PLEASE*

by Cartoon Head Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:50 pm

box86rowh wrote:I also think he is a natural born citizen, but please show some proof...

Why do you think he is a NBC if you have not seen any proof?

Suspect

by **HotParadox** Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:54 pm

Cartoon Head wrote:
HotParadox wrote:
Cartoon Head wrote:This is what it comes down to.

The neo cons cannot tolerate the fact that in a democratic election, that their representatives did not win.

Due to that, and in their childish petulance, they scrape the tin, looking for something, anything, to cling on to.

Then of course we have others, perhaps not nesc Republican Neo Cons, and there motive to this straw clutching is that, deep down, it irks them that a non white man got the nod.
Then they should re-think their irk, because BO's mother is white. Of course, it is also curious that he refers to himself as black. At least, it strikes me as odd, since he is 50% white, and the other half is mixed.

But that is not the way hard core racists think.

In their eyes, the most cardinal sin is to race mix.

Therefore, not only would they see him as black, they would see him as being something 'worse' than black.

I am glad I don't live inside their heads.

But they are out there.

Not just a tiny minority.

I never thought of it that way. I don't know why, though, because that makes sense to me. If he says he's mixed, he's screwed. But I wonder why he chose to say black over white, since he is more white? Maybe because he most identifies with blacks; I'm not sure about that, just a guess on my part.

by **HotParadox** Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:57 pm

Cartoon Head wrote:
Peregrine(Endangered) wrote:Maybe this needs to move to the conspiracy thread?????

Seconded.

*PLEASE*

(M)
It still involves politics. I'm going to leave it here.

by **box86rowh** Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:02 pm

Cartoon Head wrote:
box86rowh wrote:I also think he is a natural born citizen, but please show some proof...

Why do you think he is a NBC if you have not seen any proof?

Because it seems absurd he would be elected if he wasn't...but you never know these days...

by Guest Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:10 pm

box86rowh wrote:
Cartoon Head wrote:
box86rowh wrote:I also think he is a natural born citizen, but please show some proof...

Why do you think he is a NBC if you have not seen any proof?

Because it seems absurd he would be elected if he wasn't...but you never know these days...

If you choose to ignore the certificate of live birth - which WAS HIS ACTUAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE (people held it in their hands, were able to verify that it had the state seal on it, etc.) and the state of Hawaii stating that the certificate was an actual Hawaiian birth certificate, that's your problem. President Obama has provided enough proof to the public, he owes you no more explanation.

by **Peregrine(Endangered)** Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:11 pm

box86rowh wrote:First off, the one posted on factcheck.org was never verified as real and as for the state of HI confirming the birth certificate, they never actually said if it confirmed him to be a citizen, just that it was there...
I also think he is a natural born citizen, but please show some proof and stop hiding behind lawyers...

He has satisfied the requirment...no matter what he does....this would still go on...He is just not going to stoop to this level of stupidity...

by Cartoon Head Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:11 pm

HotParadox wrote:
Cartoon Head wrote:
HotParadox wrote:
Cartoon Head wrote:This is what it comes down to.

The neo cons cannot tolerate the fact that in a democratic election, that their representatives did not win.

Due to that, and in their childish petulance, they scrape the tin, looking for something, anything, to cling on to.

Then of course we have others, perhaps not nesc Republican Neo Cons, and there motive to this straw clutching is that, deep down, it irks them that a non white man got the nod.
Then they should re-think their irk, because BO's mother is white. Of course, it is also curious that he refers to himself as black. At least, it strikes me as odd, since he is 50% white, and the other half is mixed.

But that is not the way hard core racists think.

In their eyes, the most cardinal sin is to race mix.

Therefore, not only would they see him as black, they would see him as being something 'worse' than black.

I am glad I don't live inside their heads.

But they are out there.

Not just a tiny minority.
I never thought of it that way. I don't know why, though, because that makes sense to me. If he says he's mixed, he's screwed. But I wonder why he chose to say black over white, since he is more white? Maybe because he most identifies with blacks; I'm not sure about that, just a guess on my part.

If I were asked if he is black or white, I would personally say that he was black.

by **HotParadox** Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:15 pm

Cartoon Head wrote:
HotParadox wrote:
Cartoon Head wrote:
HotParadox wrote:
Cartoon Head wrote:This is what it comes down to.

The neo cons cannot tolerate the fact that in a democratic election, that their representatives did not win.

Due to that, and in their childish petulance, they scrape the tin, looking for something, anything, to cling on to.

Then of course we have others, perhaps not nesc Republican Neo Cons, and there motive to this straw clutching is that, deep down, it irks them that a non white man got the nod.
Then they should re-think their irk, because BO's mother is white. Of course, it is also curious that he refers to himself as black. At least, it strikes me as odd, since he is 50% white, and the other half is mixed.

But that is not the way hard core racists think.
In their eyes, the most cardinal sin is to race mix.

Therefore, not only would they see him as black, they would see him as being something 'worse' than black.

I am glad I don't live inside their heads.

But they are out there.

Not just a tiny minority.
I never thought of it that way. I don't know why, though, because that makes sense to me. If he says he's mixed, he's screwed. But I wonder why he chose to say black over white, since he is more white? Maybe because he most identifies with blacks; I'm not sure about that, just a guess on my part.

If I were asked if he is black or white, I would personally say that he was black.

Bingo. And I think that is probably why he identifies himself as such; because most of us see the black even though he is clearly white too. Too bad.

by Guest Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:29 pm

Oh, I did get your PM HP. Thank you very VERY much! I'm going to try them out today.

I'm posting some of my family's favorite recipes in the recipe thread. Most are deserts, I have one breakfast item as well though.

by Cartoon Head Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:32 pm

lisan24 wrote:Oh, I did get your PM HP. Thank you very VERY much! I'm going to try them out today.

I'm posting some of my family's favorite recipes in the recipe thread. Most are deserts, I have one breakfast item as well though.

Huh???

by **HotParadox** Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:33 pm

lisan24 wrote:Oh, I did get your PM HP. Thank you very VERY much! I'm going to try them out today.

I'm posting some of my family's favorite recipes in the recipe thread. Most are deserts, I have one breakfast item as well though.

Awesome! Meet me over at the Random thread, so I can comment freely!

by **Old Timer** Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:20 pm

I would still have one question unanswered. the state of Hawaii issues two (2) types of live birth certificates. My question is which one does Obama have. And why is the serial number blacked out.

by Guest Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:20 pm

This webpage shows pictures of the birth certificate with the seal and no numbers blacked out.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

It also has a picture of the birth announcement in the Honolulu newspaper. It ALSO has the information from the state of Hawaii's vital statistics department and what they've had to say on the matter. (Quoting that it's "ridiculous" that people are still taking issue with it.)

by Susan aka CV Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:47 am

Frankg wrote:Major General says president's eligibility needs proof
'Most important, what I really want is the truth'

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: February 26, 2009
11:40 pm Eastern
By Bob Unruh
2009 WorldNetDaily

Retired Maj. Gen. Carroll Childers

On the heels of two active duty members of the U.S. military serving in Iraq calling for President Obama to prove his eligibility to be president, a retired major general has agreed to join the case, saying he just wants "the truth."

WND reported earlier when 1st Lt. Scott Easterling confirmed to California attorney Orly Taitz that he wanted to be a plaintiff in the legal action she is preparing on behalf of members of the U.S. military, both active and retired. A second soldier who asked that his name be withheld for now became part of the action just a day later.

Now retired Maj. Gen. Carroll D. Childers has submitted a statement to Taitz and her DefendOurFreedoms.us website, agreeing to be a plaintiff in her pending action.

"I agree to be a plaintiff in the legal action to be filed by Orly Taitz, Esq. in a petition for a declaratory judgement (sic) that Barack Hussein Obama is not qualified to be president of the U.S., nor to be commander in chief of the U.S. armed forces, in that I am or was a sworn member of the U.S. military (subject to recall)," he wrote.

If recalled, he would be "unable to follow any orders given by a constitutionally unqualified commander in chief, since by doing so I would be subject to charges of aiding and abetting fraud and committing acts of treason," he wrote.

thanks for the article frankie.

personally, i've never believed obama was born in hawaii - still don't.

but i must say retired Maj. Gen. Childers reasons for wanting the truth about this are things i never thought about before! it never occurred to me that our military is fighting a war under the leadership of a man who is not eligible to be their commander in chief.

you're a military guy, aren't u frankie?? do u agree with Childers assessment that treason charges could be brought if orders are taken from an unqualified commander in chief? it doesn't seem fair to hold our military guys accountable for things that are out of their control... but then again - the soldiers that tortured the prisoners in cuba are the ones who paid the price - not the ones who gave the orders (bush - cheney - rumsfeld)...

what gives with this frankie? any other military guys here???

CV

by Cartoon Head Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:13 am

Susan aka CV wrote:[personally, i've never believed obama was born in hawaii - still don't.

I doesn't matter what you 'believe'.

Try reading Lisa's post.

FFS.

by LogicallyYours Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:38 am

Lisa,

This would prove, to them, that this is all part of a larger conspiracy. They start from the premise that they know the "truth" and any evidence to the contrary is naturally false.

This is the same mindset used by the Young Earth Creationist, 9/11 Truthers, Moon Landing deniers.....

by thomasjay Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:56 am

HotParadox wrote:
Cartoon Head wrote:
Peregrine(Endangered) wrote:Maybe this needs to move to the conspiracy thread?????

Seconded.

*PLEASE*
(M)
It still involves politics. I'm going to leave it here.

Thirded. If I was to start posting threads that Dick Cheney was behind 9/11, Queen Elizabeth is a reptilian shapeshifter, or 'teh Joos' secretly control all governments, will you leave them up here? They all involve politics, and all have the same level of 'twoof'.

by **HotParadox** Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:58 am

(M)
Sorry, tj. It's staying here.

by Cartoon Head Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:01 pm

thomasjay wrote:
HotParadox wrote:
Cartoon Head wrote:
Peregrine(Endangered) wrote:Maybe this needs to move to the conspiracy thread?????

Seconded.

*PLEASE*
(M)
It still involves politics. I'm going to leave it here.

Thirded. If I was to start posting threads that Dick Cheney was behind 9/11, Queen Elizabeth is a reptilian shapeshifter, or 'teh Joos' secretly control all governments, will you leave them up here? They all involve politics, and all have the same level of 'twoof'.

Lol, you mean to say that the Queen isn't a shape shifter - Razz

Anyway, I wouldn't expect your request, or that of me, or Peregrine, to be accomodated any time soon.

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