In Our Image...

Alright, now are you saying that you are positively sure that there is no god based on the fact that you cannot find any evidence yourself.

Old Timer wrote:Alright, now are you saying that you are positively sure that there is no god based on the fact that you cannot find any evidence yourself.

No.

I am saying that I am comfortable saying that there probably is no god, since no one has ever prodiuced any evidence to support it, and I have seen nothing to suggest that it is true.

This really isn't hard.

I see. Now what about the personal experience of what could be millions of people? Are they all wrong in their belief that there is a God? Are you saying that only you and others like you are correct in your belief and the rest of the world is wrong.

Old Timer wrote:I see. Now what about the personal experience of what could be millions of people? Are they all wrong in their belief that there is a God? Are you saying that only you and others like you are correct in your belief and the rest of the world is wrong.

The fact that 'millions of people' claim something is proof of nothing.

All it proves is that a certain number of people happen to beleive in the same thing.

Scratch that.

They actually don't, do they?

That is why religions have spent so many years in fighting.

Even sects within Islam and Christianity cannot agree themselves what it is they are beleiving in.

How are we meant to take it seriously, when they are absent of a united beleif?

Btw, it is not my opinion v The Rest Of The World.

As it happens, there are many people who apply critical thinking to this subject, and reject the idea, on the grounds that I have cited.

And the number of believers far outnumber the number of non believers. It sure seems funny that no matter what the subject is when you post somehow you always seem to be able to bring up the subject we are discussing. As I said you keep on asking for proof of God's existence but you have failed very badly to show any reason or proof your self as to why he does not exist as I have asked for.

I am not asking for anything from anybody else what they said, thought or have written., Now once again.

What proof do you have to bring to the table YOURSELF to show that God does not exist. My guess is that you do not have anything more than those that do believe, and that is faith in what you believe.

As you have stated many times, you say that god Probably does not exist. And those that do believe say that he Does exist. Seems to me that they think positively wheras you are not to sure as you say just probably.

You keep having to ask that since you have not properly read what I have written before.

Little point in my repeating it or elaborating on it, just to have you be the same way, five posts from now.

Have a good time.

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:You keep having to ask that since you have not properly read what I have written before.

Little point in my repeating it or elaborating on it, just to have you be the same way, five posts from now.

Have a good time.

So once again you avoid the question don't you? So here it is in a nut shell. I have never stated that I do believe or that I do not believe that God exists. You are the one that is making the statement that, and I quote " God probably does not exist. " I have repeatedly asked you on what proof or evidence do you yourself have to back up this claim. Not what others have said or wrote, but rather what do you have other than a thought. I have nothing to prove as I have never stated anything one way or the other. You on the other hand have stated your beliefs and have many times challenged those that do believe to prove it. So now the shoe is on the other foot here isn't it? I say to you prove to me that god probably doesn't exist as you so state that you believe. Show me evidence that will stand up beyond a reasonaable doubt. Time to either put up or shut up Steve.

I'll draw the curtain on this one thanks.

I have addressed your points to the best of my ability.

You are not satisfied with them.

That's fine.

slip sliding away.....

Are you about to belt out a few bars from a song, Tel?

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Are you about to belt out a few bars from a song, Tel?

That is an oldie but goodie hey. Steve, do they rent harleys in the town your in?

I would have thought so.

*nods*

I have been in this life for a while now. Been around, known a lot of people, had a lot of various expeirences. Some quite interesting and unique. I have, like I think all have, have contemplated this subject of "God". I still have not came to any conclusions. I don't care to take other's beliefs in this regard from them; live and let live. However, I have observed in my lifetime that religions have caused a lot of suffering, misery and deaths for many humans. Of course, it is what humans do with their religion. LIke Muslim Fundamentalist fanatics blowing up people and causing vast destruction. Also, the Catholics and their Inquistions back several hundred years ago. And the so-called "Purtians" that had the "witch Trials' in the colonies in the infancy of this nation.
I personally don't envision God, if there is such an entity as some human-like, scowling, white-haired, bearded old man that acts like he has a bad case of hemmoroids and was badly abused when younger. As a matter of fact, not human-like at all. I cannot even say that I see, in this case I will revert to the term "IT" as I have pondered the gender label used in thise regard; "Him", "He", "Father" and so on. One of such suggested power and marvelous abilities certainly doesn't need a gender role in which to exist.
I think about all that we have to go on in this regard is what has been conjured up by humans past and present and filtered through their senses and minds. Latest that has occurred to me is that this word might be applicapable to the "Creative Force" the results of which we all observe in our world. Beyond that, I will have to plead trotal ignorance, now and always. As I think it is a truly incomprehensible circumstance...
We all may have to settle in the end upon the idea that when we go into the big sleep there's no waking up.
Others have suggested, offered the concept of reincarnation which many others have said is ridicoulous. I would say no more so than the idea of at some time being taken to an idyllic place where one lives forever and there is nothing but peace. Especially people being selected through a "popularity contest" sort of arrangmement, wherein those found without "Sin", or "forgiven" will get to reside there.
As for the existence of life in regard to highly intelligent beings, of which we humans have a long ways to go to appropriately be a good example of advanced life-forms in this universe; since there is so very, very much in the universe, it stands to reason that we are not alone, especially since we are here. As well as a multitude of other life-forms that we share this planet with. Part of the arrogance of humans suggest that we are the most intelligent. I think that is still a subject that it will take a very long time to actually determine.

Beautiful, simply beautifully put. great post Coontie. Sure glad to see ya here.

howdy wrote:Big Slick. Are you referring to the giants?

Some have referred to them as Giants. Yes. Why?

Giants? What giants? I don't see any giants.

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:

The Koran teaches that the prophet Allah was actually once illiterate.

Guess what happened.

God, the same god, he came down from the heavens.

He literally picked up Allah.

He shook him a little.

He gave him the power to be literate, and commanded that he go among his people and make them literate also.

Steve, I think you mean Muhammed here. Muhammed was the prophet. Allah is an arabic translation of the word 'God'

Old Timer wrote:Giants? What giants? I don't see any giants.

The giants or Nefilim in Genesis.

Big Slick wrote:

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:

The Koran teaches that the prophet Allah was actually once illiterate.

Guess what happened.

God, the same god, he came down from the heavens.

He literally picked up Allah.

He shook him a little.

He gave him the power to be literate, and commanded that he go among his people and make them literate also.

Steve, I think you mean Muhammed here. Muhammed was the prophet. Allah is an arabic translation of the word 'God'

Oh yes.

A Freudian slip there, slick.

Either way, I know under ten's who could manufacture a more plausible storyline than that!

OK. Gotcha, sorry bout that.

Old Timer wrote:

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:You keep having to ask that since you have not properly read what I have written before.

Little point in my repeating it or elaborating on it, just to have you be the same way, five posts from now.

Have a good time.

So once again you avoid the question don't you? So here it is in a nut shell. I have never stated that I do believe or that I do not believe that God exists. You are the one that is making the statement that, and I quote " God probably does not exist. " I have repeatedly asked you on what proof or evidence do you yourself have to back up this claim. Not what others have said or wrote, but rather what do you have other than a thought. I have nothing to prove as I have never stated anything one way or the other. You on the other hand have stated your beliefs and have many times challenged those that do believe to prove it. So now the shoe is on the other foot here isn't it? I say to you prove to me that god probably doesn't exist as you so state that you believe. Show me evidence that will stand up beyond a reasonaable doubt. Time to either put up or shut up Steve.

That pretty well sums the situation up, for all times! But one does not necessarily feel as though they have to prove anything to anyone - some do and others expect it. Others never feel that they have to prove or demonstrate anything to anyone. Other than that, it comes down to that individual; the seeker, traveler, Pilgrim, that each of us, in our own time and for whatever period, make the journey through this circumstance we term a "life-time". What came before we were here and what is to follow is only known upon our arrival at that place in time. Eternity is a TIMELESS circumstance, so a lot can emerge out of that seeming "darkness", "void", "abyss". Then, each of us, in our own personal and individual way will realize our own experience, perspective of this life, which no other can ever truly know. Even though we are somehow personally present in each other's life at any given time.
However, some things are taken on faith and shall remain so. As with many of us in our varying cicumstances of individual being, some have the vision and intuition more than others. What comes to those with special perception; none other can know - it cannot be imparted - has to "come" and be experienced; it is like a dreamer; what they perceive appears to them. Then, only they can relate it to another as their experience and the other can only accept and leave it at that.
Many things are "seen" and experienced through senses not ordinarily exercised or realized in this physical world.

Big Slick wrote:

howdy wrote:Big Slick. Are you referring to the giants?

Some have referred to them as Giants. Yes. Why?

I have always had an interest in the story of the giants. I will come back to this topic later.

Here's a random thought.

When the bible speaks of god saying 'let us make them in our image', why did he choose to use the plural?

And who was he saying it to?

And if we are in his image, in what way?

Physically?

Psychologically?

Both?

How would that work?

Any rational ideas?

*shrugs*

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Here's a random thought.

When the bible speaks of god saying 'let us make them in our image', why did he choose to use the plural?

And who was he saying it to?

And if we are in his image, in what way?

Physically?

Psychologically?

Both?

How would that work?

Any rational ideas?

*shrugs*

Steve, I addressed in one of my earlier posts. It is plural as if the speaker was referring to more than one person or a race of people. The Nefilim

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Here's a random thought.

When the bible speaks of god saying 'let us make them in our image', why did he choose to use the plural?

And who was he saying it to?

And if we are in his image, in what way?

Physically?

Psychologically?

Both?

How would that work?

Any rational ideas?

*shrugs*

You "picked up"; discerned the same circumstance that I did long ago. It is a, least to say" curious statement. It obviously means plural, such as in there was more than one Entity, or whatever, that was sdupposely involved in the creative process. There's a lot of material there that certainly begs to be questioned - one of the main resons that the old religious Patriarchs attempted to keep the "word" from ordinary people. It gave them power and dominion over others as well as avoiding exposing glaring statements such as you mentioned.
This material represent more than anyone can and will ever know in regrard to wehat has trnaspired on this planet. MUch has been filtered and rewriteen, fashioned to tell a story that SOM HUMANS want to "sell" to other humans, as that version places them in control - a burning desire of many humans down through the ages.
I have read books regarding the Anakai and their planet, Nibiru. Seems there could be as much credibility there, or more, than the Bible story; a.k.a. "Old Testament".
They were supposed to have created the "Dark-Headed Ones, which later became a group of people that were Desert Wanderers and eventually splintered into the Twelve Tribes of Israel and the rest that followed Muhammed and became Muslims. In the book regarding the Anakai there was one of these beings whose name was "Sin" and his symbol was a crescent-moon and star. Seems like he might have had something to do with the origin of Islam.
As for the Nephilim, they are considered by some Jews and Christians as companions of Lucifer, the "Fallen Angel". They later became classified as "Demons" and Lucifer as the Devil. Main reason being is that they corrupted human-beings by educating them; alas the snake figure in the tree of Eden. They were, in some languages, deemd or termed "Giants" as they appeared to have great power. That was because they came out of the sky, had various machines and apparatus and were highly intelligent. They weren't becessarily larger than humans, but mostly had great powers and capability.
One thing I am puzzled about is that there are several distinct races; Caucasian, Negroid; Asian and Arabic/Mid-Eastern. Where did the first three originate? I think from "other origins"; not actually original from here, except for the Negroid Race which Seems to be the product of the original evolutionary process of the planet's natural circumstance.

Big Slick wrote:

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Here's a random thought.

When the bible speaks of god saying 'let us make them in our image', why did he choose to use the plural?

And who was he saying it to?

And if we are in his image, in what way?

Physically?

Psychologically?

Both?

How would that work?

Any rational ideas?

*shrugs*

Steve, I addressed in one of my earlier posts. It is plural as if the speaker was referring to more than one person or a race of people. The Nefilim

Fantasy beings, all part of a series of folklore stories?

No more valid in terms of proof than legends such as Medusa or the Siren.

Many sea farers swore blind to the existance of the latter, yet we now know that there were most likely other reasons why they misidentified the creature.

However, for the purpose of the chat, perhaps it didn't mean 'giants' in terms of their physical size, but their knowledge?

Great knowledge would indeed make them 'giants among men', would it not....

coontie wrote:

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Here's a random thought.

When the bible speaks of god saying 'let us make them in our image', why did he choose to use the plural?

And who was he saying it to?

And if we are in his image, in what way?

Physically?

Psychologically?

Both?

How would that work?

Any rational ideas?

*shrugs*

You "picked up"; discerned the same circumstance that I did long ago. It is a, least to say" curious statement. It obviously means plural, such as in there was more than one Entity, or whatever, that was sdupposely involved in the creative process. There's a lot of material there that certainly begs to be questioned - one of the main resons that the old religious Patriarchs attempted to keep the "word" from ordinary people. It gave them power and dominion over others as well as avoiding exposing glaring statements such as you mentioned.
This material represent more than anyone can and will ever know in regrard to wehat has trnaspired on this planet. MUch has been filtered and rewriteen, fashioned to tell a story that SOM HUMANS want to "sell" to other humans, as that version places them in control - a burning desire of many humans down through the ages.
I have read books regarding the Anakai and their planet, Nibiru. Seems there could be as much credibility there, or more, than the Bible story; a.k.a. "Old Testament".
They were supposed to have created the "Dark-Headed Ones, which later became a group of people that were Desert Wanderers and eventually splintered into the Twelve Tribes of Israel and the rest that followed Muhammed and became Muslims. In the book regarding the Anakai there was one of these beings whose name was "Sin" and his symbol was a crescent-moon and star. Seems like he might have had something to do with the origin of Islam.
As for the Nephilim, they are considered by some Jews and Christians as companions of Lucifer, the "Fallen Angel". They later became classified as "Demons" and Lucifer as the Devil. Main reason being is that they corrupted human-beings by educating them; alas the snake figure in the tree of Eden. They were, in some languages, deemd or termed "Giants" as they appeared to have great power. That was because they came out of the sky, had various machines and apparatus and were highly intelligent. They weren't becessarily larger than humans, but mostly had great powers and capability.
One thing I am puzzled about is that there are several distinct races; Caucasian, Negroid; Asian and Arabic/Mid-Eastern. Where did the first three originate? I think from "other origins"; not actually original from here, except for the Negroid Race which Seems to be the product of the original evolutionary process of the planet's natural circumstance.

AFAIK, and perhaps someone can correct me here, early man originated in what we would now call 'Africa'.

Of course, back then, the world looked quite different.

I don't think so, the folks living back then yep. The world nope, since the known dawn of man there hasn't been hardly any physical changes to our little old planet.

Old Timer wrote:I don't think so, the folks living back then yep. The world nope, since the known dawn of man there hasn't been hardly any physical changes to our little old planet.

does it suprise you that ALL land on the Planet Earth was once just one land mass?
I assume you've heard of Teutonic Plates and Continential Drift as well as what created the Mountains.

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:

coontie wrote:

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Here's a random thought.

When the bible speaks of god saying 'let us make them in our image', why did he choose to use the plural?

And who was he saying it to?

And if we are in his image, in what way?

Physically?

Psychologically?

Both?

How would that work?

Any rational ideas?

*shrugs*

You "picked up"; discerned the same circumstance that I did long ago. It is a, least to say" curious statement. It obviously means plural, such as in there was more than one Entity, or whatever, that was sdupposely involved in the creative process. There's a lot of material there that certainly begs to be questioned - one of the main resons that the old religious Patriarchs attempted to keep the "word" from ordinary people. It gave them power and dominion over others as well as avoiding exposing glaring statements such as you mentioned.
This material represent more than anyone can and will ever know in regrard to wehat has trnaspired on this planet. MUch has been filtered and rewriteen, fashioned to tell a story that SOM HUMANS want to "sell" to other humans, as that version places them in control - a burning desire of many humans down through the ages.
I have read books regarding the Anakai and their planet, Nibiru. Seems there could be as much credibility there, or more, than the Bible story; a.k.a. "Old Testament".
They were supposed to have created the "Dark-Headed Ones, which later became a group of people that were Desert Wanderers and eventually splintered into the Twelve Tribes of Israel and the rest that followed Muhammed and became Muslims. In the book regarding the Anakai there was one of these beings whose name was "Sin" and his symbol was a crescent-moon and star. Seems like he might have had something to do with the origin of Islam.
As for the Nephilim, they are considered by some Jews and Christians as companions of Lucifer, the "Fallen Angel". They later became classified as "Demons" and Lucifer as the Devil. Main reason being is that they corrupted human-beings by educating them; alas the snake figure in the tree of Eden. They were, in some languages, deemd or termed "Giants" as they appeared to have great power. That was because they came out of the sky, had various machines and apparatus and were highly intelligent. They weren't becessarily larger than humans, but mostly had great powers and capability.
One thing I am puzzled about is that there are several distinct races; Caucasian, Negroid; Asian and Arabic/Mid-Eastern. Where did the first three originate? I think from "other origins"; not actually original from here, except for the Negroid Race which Seems to be the product of the original evolutionary process of the planet's natural circumstance.

AFAIK, and perhaps someone can correct me here, early man originated in what we would now call 'Africa'.

Of course, back then, the world looked quite different.

I am puzzled regarding this; then why are there still distinct and seperate races, including obvious appearences and statures? Also, obviously distinct evolutionary circumstances regarding civilized habitats, mannerisms and other characteristics?

I have a theory that life here was started by another planet as a biology experiment to see just how far we could get before we actually destroyed ourselves and the planet as well. And all of those UFO sightings were those beings coming back to check up on us.

Food for thought, how many?

Apostels ------------------------------- 12
Tribes of Isreal ------------------------ 12
Signs in the Zodiac -------------------- 12
Gods in Olympus ---------------------- 12 ( I think )

Unusual or ? Can anyone add to this?

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:
Fantasy beings, all part of a series of folklore stories?

No more valid in terms of proof than legends such as Medusa or the Siren.

Many sea farers swore blind to the existance of the latter, yet we now know that there were most likely other reasons why they misidentified the creature.

However, for the purpose of the chat, perhaps it didn't mean 'giants' in terms of their physical size, but their knowledge?

Great knowledge would indeed make them 'giants among men', would it not....

Yes that would make them giants among men. That's kind of the track I was going down. Remember I never called them 'giants'. I said some have referred to them as such.

When the bible talks about 'let us make them...' I would argue that it's no accident. You first have to back up and recognize that Genesis is a collection of ancient creation stories and not written by Moses as taught in Christian theology. The story of Genesis first appears in Sumerian stories over 5000 years ago. The Nefilim are the "us" in the quoted verse.

Many times throughout the old testament it talks about " God did this, or God did that". This is a translation that has lost it's original meaning. When it was originally translated it speaks of Elohim.

Elohim is a plural word that refers to a collection of beings, not one god.

Gen 1:1 "in the beginning Elohim created the heaven and the earth"


Coontie, the serpent god you reference originates from the Sumerian diety Enlil.

Enlil is often represented by the snake symbol. Enlil was the son of An (god of the heavens) and Ki (goddess of the earth). He was known as the god of weather, king of lands, king of heaven and earth, and father of the gods. He was instumental in the creation of humans. He helped create humans and soon grew tired of them and sent the flood to kill them. One of Enlil's rivals, Ea, warned one human (Noah in the modern story) of the impending flood and he survived. After his survival he was then granted immortality by Enlil himself as reward for surviving.

Old Timer wrote:I have a theory that life here was started by another planet as a biology experiment to see just how far we could get before we actually destroyed ourselves and the planet as well. And all of those UFO sightings were those beings coming back to check up on us.

Food for thought, how many?

Apostels ------------------------------- 12
Tribes of Isreal ------------------------ 12
Signs in the Zodiac -------------------- 12
Gods in Olympus ---------------------- 12 ( I think )

Unusual or ? Can anyone add to this?

Sumerian mythology shows 12 celestial bodies all of which have a diety associated with them.

The 12 celestial bodies are
1. The sun
2. Mercury
3. Venus
4. Earth
5. Moon
6. Mars
7. Jupiter
8. Saturn
9. Uranus
10. Neptune
11. Pluto
12. Marduk

Marduk is the supposed planet the Nefilim originate from. It orbits our sun once every 3600 years and has an oblong orbit that puts it very far out from our solar system. There is some scientific creedence to this as well. Astronomers have found evidence of another planet past Pluto although no pictures have been taken of it yet. It has been referred to as Planet X. If you google it I bet you can find some stuff on it.

Good post Big Slick, informative.

It is fun to speculate, I guess, Slick.

You mention Noah and his 'Ark', in your last sentence.

Oddly enough, I don't have the verse to hand, however, when speaking of the Ark, it says something along the likes of the Ark rising up, or some such thing.

Of course, most people assume the Ark to be a boat/ship.

It would be odd terminology to describe a boat 'rising', huh?

Let's leave aside the fact that there is no evidence of a flood, as suggested in the Bible, and play with this.

One fella I read, he was convinced that the 'ship' was more the space kind, and not the water based kind.

And of course, these animal species that were supposedly saved.

It would be laughingly impossible to store so many different species on a ship!

Unless...

....unless if were not a sea ship, and unless, rather than the whole creature, the DNA was taken from each species, and later activated again, the way that scientists are getting close to doing, even with extinct species, such as the Dodo.

I am just playing along, of course.

Hey, perhaps the books of this man may interest you?

I have a couple, and they are pretty good, mate.


http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/home.htm

Footnote.

If 'god' made man in his own image, was he incredibly vain?

Discuss..

Couldbe, could be who knows.

I think that idea is totally possible. There is a vault somewhere in Europe where they are doing this same thing. I want to say it's in Sweden? I could be wrong on that but they are collecting DNA from every known animal and plant species and storing them in this huge vault just in case.

Also, about the flood. It is commonly thought of as a flood of the entire world, but a more reasonable assumption would be a flood of a region. In this time, mankind was not as spread out as they are today and a small flood in a costal region could be conceived by the people of that time as a catastrophic flood that engulfed the whole world. Which would be true to them and their known world. It's all relative.

Steve, what do you think? You always throw out discussion topics and always ask "is it possible that...", but you never actually tell anyone what you believe. Why the secrecy?

I think Steve likes to stir up the pot and sit back and wait to see what will come to the surface.