How To Help The Housing Crisis..

Throughout the UK there are decent people who, due to developments in the economy, cannot get a mortage, even though they could afford to make the repayments.

Not so long ago, a bank would have given a mortgage to a hobo , but all that has changed, and now you need to have so much more, in terms of a deposit, etc.

There are an increasing number who did buy their house, and who are having their home taken away, by the bank, for missing two payments.

I believe the the basic principle of everyone having a dwelling place of reasonable standard, suited to their needs.

And at an affordable price. Not the silly sky high rents you pay in the private market. Which, btw, are often no assurance of good standards.

We need to invest more in building modern council homes.

This would soak up the overspill of those who cannot afford their own place, yet who do not want to be scammed anymore by private letting agencies.

It would also give an outlet to those people who have sadly lost the home that they owned.

The principle of it was sound to start with, albeit, I do admit that it has never been without it's problems.

The added plus would be the thousands of jobs that a nation wide buiding programme would bring.

I am not sure what a modern council home is. Could you let me know?

Thanks.

Theophilus wrote:I am not sure what a modern council home is. Could you let me know?

Thanks.

Council homes, or rather local authority housing, are homes that are built by the local city or town, then rented out to people at a very competitive rate.

We have had them here for years.

The principle was always a sound one.

And it is sound, once more.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_house


"The council house is a form of public or social housing in the United Kingdom. Council houses were built and operated by local councils to supply uncrowded, well built homes on secure tenancies at affordable (below market) rents to the local population. As of 2005, approximately twenty percent of the country’s housing stock is owned by local councils or by housing associations. In Scotland, council estates are known as “schemes".

Commonly frequented by hordes of chavs

Sir Bonvolio wrote:Commonly frequented by hordes of chavs

Absolute misreprensentation.

Cartoon Head wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:Commonly frequented by hordes of chavs

Absolute misreprensentation.

Unfortunatly the one I grew up on wholeheartedly reinforced the stereotype. Sad but true, they were proud of it in a strange way...

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:Commonly frequented by hordes of chavs

Absolute misreprensentation.

Unfortunatly the one I grew up on wholeheartedly reinforced the stereotype. Sad but true, they were proud of it in a strange way...

I am not denying that there were some homes that had structural problems, like dampness, for example.

I cannot deny that the high rises were a big mistake.

I cannot deny that in some high density schemes, they can be like ghetto's.

However, what I am trying to do is be positive that those errors could be learned from.

Cartoon Head wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:Commonly frequented by hordes of chavs

Absolute misreprensentation.

Unfortunatly the one I grew up on wholeheartedly reinforced the stereotype. Sad but true, they were proud of it in a strange way...

I am not denying that there were some homes that had structural problems, like dampness, for example.

I cannot deny that the high rises were a big mistake.

I cannot deny that in some high density schemes, they can be like ghetto's.

However, what I am trying to do is be positive that those errors could be learned from.

I completely agree, although, as you go down in the earnings bracket, the intellegence/education tends to go down aswell. Hear me out on this one.

So, you just get areas of people who are financially a bit stuck, having children who tend to repeat the cycle, due to the socio-economic factors they are raised in.

So you get the same families living on estates for generation after generation, very happy with their lot, because it's all they've ever known.

Drinking, unemployment, antisocial behaviour and drug abuse are always higher in these areas.

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:Commonly frequented by hordes of chavs

Absolute misreprensentation.

Unfortunatly the one I grew up on wholeheartedly reinforced the stereotype. Sad but true, they were proud of it in a strange way...

I am not denying that there were some homes that had structural problems, like dampness, for example.

I cannot deny that the high rises were a big mistake.

I cannot deny that in some high density schemes, they can be like ghetto's.

However, what I am trying to do is be positive that those errors could be learned from.

I completely agree, although, as you go down in the earnings bracket, the intellegence/education tends to go down aswell. Hear me out on this one.

So, you just get areas of people who are financially a bit stuck, having children who tend to repeat the cycle, due to the socio-economic factors they are raised in.

So you get the same families living on estates for generation after generation, very happy with their lot, because it's all they've ever known.

Drinking, unemployment, antisocial behaviour and drug abuse are always higher in these areas.

Well those are true but quite seperate social issues.

Imo, this would only be assisted by my plan, har, har..

For a start, there is something to be said for a concrete jungle (which many estates are), are inevitably going to spark no sense of enthusiasm from the tenant.

This apathy for the area soon leds to vandalism, the people lose even more motivation, the area falls further into decline, etc.

But here is how I would work it.

Say you were on the look out.

Now, if you were free of any crimes of anti social behaviour, throwing stones at fire engines, stabbing neighbours, then you would be offered the better of the choices.

If you had a serious problem with any of the above, then feck, better to have these nutters in one area were they can be properly monitored, rather than scattered all over the city, right?

Anyway, the better a neighbour you were, the more points you get, the more points you get, the nicer area you are offered.

This is interesting conversation. I feel something like this should be used temporarily. The times we are going through now I can see where this makes sense. In difficult times we could use something like this. Though generations of families living there I do not support. Also when these housing units are vacated. What are the costs to the tax payers for upkeep? My personal feeling on this is.

This could lead to people being unmotivated to do anything.

Theophilus wrote:This is interesting conversation. I feel something like this should be used temporarily. The times we are going through now I can see where this makes sense. In difficult times we could use something like this. Though generations of families living there I do not support. Also when these housing units are vacated. What are the costs to the tax payers for upkeep? My personal feeling on this is.

This could lead to people being unmotivated to do anything.

It's not as simple as that.

If you are working then there is rent to pay.

True, it is less than the private market, but you still have that, and then there is the council tax, which can be pretty hefty, and then there are water charges etc to factor in.

Utility bills have also rocketed in recent times.

We were assured that privatising the utilities would be more competitive, lead to more efficiency, and cheaper costs to the end user. It hasn't.

So you would still need the motivation to make the money to afford all of that!

As for the building of them, they are really an investment for the state, if done right.

Some council homes here are like 200 years old.

Okay, they have perhaps only been council stock for say 50 yrs, but imagine how many times over that house has been paid for, in rent, in half a century...

Therefore, if done right, there should be no loss.

And there are those jobs that I mentioned, which would be created...

When commenting on UK issues I have to tread to carefully. Seeing as how I am not from there. The points you brought up are valid, and understood. Even if I don't agree with all of them.

Theophilus wrote:This is interesting conversation. I feel something like this should be used temporarily. The times we are going through now I can see where this makes sense. In difficult times we could use something like this. Though generations of families living there I do not support. Also when these housing units are vacated. What are the costs to the tax payers for upkeep? My personal feeling on this is.

This could lead to people being unmotivated to do anything.

This is exactly what has happened.

Everyone on the dole having children and living off of state handouts, makes me happy to know that the 30% of my pay that is taken is being used so effectively. Plus the £125 council tax a month, plus VAT, plus alcohol and tobacco duty and stealth taxes.

CH, am I right in saying that they were started around the 60s with the self build programmes?

How would the points system really work? All I can see is scandal written all over it if the government used it...

Also, CH, what with housing benefit, and council tax benefit, quite a few tenants in council homes are paying well under £50 a month rent, and no bills. All paid for by us. I know of one family that paid £12 a month rent. £12!!!

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Theophilus wrote:This is interesting conversation. I feel something like this should be used temporarily. The times we are going through now I can see where this makes sense. In difficult times we could use something like this. Though generations of families living there I do not support. Also when these housing units are vacated. What are the costs to the tax payers for upkeep? My personal feeling on this is.

This could lead to people being unmotivated to do anything.

This is exactly what has happened.

Everyone on the dole having children and living off of state handouts, makes me happy to know that the 30% of my pay that is taken is being used so effectively. Plus the £125 council tax a month, plus VAT, plus alcohol and tobacco duty and stealth taxes.

CH, am I right in saying that they were started around the 60s with the self build programmes?

How would the points system really work? All I can see is scandal written all over it if the government used it...

Also, CH, what with housing benefit, and council tax benefit, quite a few tenants in council homes are paying well under £50 a month rent, and no bills. All paid for by us. I know of one family that paid £12 a month rent. £12!!!

If they paid that, then I can only assume that they had no employment?

That's the thing.

There are people losing their houses and jobs all over the nation.

My idea would give them a secure tenancy, and if they did happen to lose their job, then sure, why not a safety net system, rather than see families lose their home?

of course, but their whole lives?

Then their children getting pregnant and waiting for an available place and doing the same thing?

and everyone in the area thinking that this is acceptable and the norm!?!?!?

how, mr. CH, would you deal with these things?

Sir Bonvolio wrote:of course, but their whole lives?

Then their children getting pregnant and waiting for an available place and doing the same thing?

and everyone in the area thinking that this is acceptable and the norm!?!?!?

how, mr. CH, would you deal with these things?

That's the same problem we have with government funded housing here. They have no job when they get the place but the government gives them a roof over their head, then they get help with food. welfare is enough to pay the electricity and they find they can make more money selling drugs or doing jobs that allow them to be paid off the books so they can continue to get the assistance. There's no incentive for them to get a job.

CarolinaHound wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:of course, but their whole lives?

Then their children getting pregnant and waiting for an available place and doing the same thing?

and everyone in the area thinking that this is acceptable and the norm!?!?!?

how, mr. CH, would you deal with these things?

That's the same problem we have with government funded housing here. They have no job when they get the place but the government gives them a roof over their head, then they get help with food. welfare is enough to pay the electricity and they find they can make more money selling drugs or doing jobs that allow them to be paid off the books so they can continue to get the assistance. There's no incentive for them to get a job.

Perhaps you should tell my dad that.

He was brought up in one.

Never stopped working his whole life, until he retired.

Yes and I've been working full time since I was 17 and at the moment I do 60+ hours a week (114 is my record).

There are always exceptions!

I wasn't, and I don't think CarolinaHound was either, commenting individual people, more, making generalisations about well known problems that occur at a higher percentage within these areas.

You could fit a freaking 5 bed house in the gap that the dentist has made in my back teeth, this morning!

Sorted.

Cartoon Head wrote:

CarolinaHound wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:of course, but their whole lives?

Then their children getting pregnant and waiting for an available place and doing the same thing?

and everyone in the area thinking that this is acceptable and the norm!?!?!?

how, mr. CH, would you deal with these things?

That's the same problem we have with government funded housing here. They have no job when they get the place but the government gives them a roof over their head, then they get help with food. welfare is enough to pay the electricity and they find they can make more money selling drugs or doing jobs that allow them to be paid off the books so they can continue to get the assistance. There's no incentive for them to get a job.

Perhaps you should tell my dad that.

He was brought up in one.

Never stopped working his whole life, until he retired.

I hope nobody takes this as me being an "age-ist" but I think the folks of yesteryear had a different set of values then some folks do today. When it comes to working hard, no matter how humble the job, they did it and did not look for pity or want something for nothing.

That could be true.

Or maybe we are being somewhat 'romantic' in our vision of past generations?

What I am presently trying to figure out right now, is when I went for a sleep today, I left my contact lenses in, and now my eyes are all funny!

Sir Bonvolio wrote:Yes and I've been working full time since I was 17 and at the moment I do 60+ hours a week (114 is my record).

There are always exceptions!

I wasn't, and I don't think CarolinaHound was either, commenting individual people, more, making generalisations about well known problems that occur at a higher percentage within these areas.

Exactly. I'm just saying what has been the result with such programs in the past. It's a wonderful idea in theory, and a great idea to help people get through the bumps in life we all go through, some getting bumped harder than others. Unfortunately there will always be a bunch of people who take advantage of it and use it as a way of life rather than an opportunity to help themselves move to better things. They make the whole system look bad for the people that really want to make an honest living. And in such situatation lead to the bad over taking the good.

Cartoon Head wrote:That could be true.

Or maybe we are being somewhat 'romantic' in our vision of past generations?

What I am presently trying to figure out right now, is when I went for a sleep today, I left my contact lenses in, and now my eyes are all funny!

They go along well with your funny lookin face. hehehehehe

You can say that again. Say it again, please.

CarolinaHound wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:That could be true.

Or maybe we are being somewhat 'romantic' in our vision of past generations?

What I am presently trying to figure out right now, is when I went for a sleep today, I left my contact lenses in, and now my eyes are all funny!

They go along well with your funny lookin face. hehehehehe

That IS my face.

I cannot get the mask off.

It was super glued on months ago.

I have to drink and eat through a straw.

HotParadox wrote:You can say that again. Say it again, please.

What's your new avatar of?

Cartoon Head wrote:

HotParadox wrote:You can say that again. Say it again, please.

What's your new avatar of?

It's of our cool magazine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Improper_Bostonian
http://www.improper.com/index.html

Cartoon Head wrote:

CarolinaHound wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:That could be true.

Or maybe we are being somewhat 'romantic' in our vision of past generations?

What I am presently trying to figure out right now, is when I went for a sleep today, I left my contact lenses in, and now my eyes are all funny!

They go along well with your funny lookin face. hehehehehe

That IS my face.

I cannot get the mask off.

It was super glued on months ago.

I have to drink and eat through a straw.

Who said anything about the mask?

CarolinaHound wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:

CarolinaHound wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:That could be true.

Or maybe we are being somewhat 'romantic' in our vision of past generations?

What I am presently trying to figure out right now, is when I went for a sleep today, I left my contact lenses in, and now my eyes are all funny!

They go along well with your funny lookin face. hehehehehe

That IS my face.

I cannot get the mask off.

It was super glued on months ago.

I have to drink and eat through a straw.

Who said anything about the mask?

But you have never seen my face, ya nugget!

Cartoon Head wrote:

CarolinaHound wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:

CarolinaHound wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:That could be true.

Or maybe we are being somewhat 'romantic' in our vision of past generations?

What I am presently trying to figure out right now, is when I went for a sleep today, I left my contact lenses in, and now my eyes are all funny!

They go along well with your funny lookin face. hehehehehe

That IS my face.

I cannot get the mask off.

It was super glued on months ago.

I have to drink and eat through a straw.

Who said anything about the mask?

But you have never seen my face, ya nugget!

The mask is better.

HotParadox wrote:I hope nobody takes this as me being an "age-ist" but I think the folks of yesteryear had a different set of values then some folks do today. When it comes to working hard, no matter how humble the job, they did it and did not look for pity or want something for nothing.

I'm not sure about the US, but in England there definatly has been a breakdown in traditional values. It has become more profit over people, possesions over inner happiness, having children too young because there is more of an expectancy to grow up quicker, etc. (far too many reasons)

Also, the minimum wage laws/worker protection laws have had two bad effects imo. It has made people more content with doing the absolute minimum, thus decreasing their job satisfaction, motivation, etc. and their colleagues too. Also, if someone is taking the piss, it takes so long to get rid of them. People know their rights, but in some cases they are far too well protected.

CarolinaHound wrote:Exactly. I'm just saying what has been the result with such programs in the past. It's a wonderful idea in theory, and a great idea to help people get through the bumps in life we all go through, some getting bumped harder than others. Unfortunately there will always be a bunch of people who take advantage of it and use it as a way of life rather than an opportunity to help themselves move to better things. They make the whole system look bad for the people that really want to make an honest living. And in such situatation lead to the bad over taking the good

So how do we deal with this?

Tradional values (sic).....a phrase often bandied around, esp by conservatives, ESP those with a religous bent. What exactly are they?

Btw, Sir Bee, where do you live, right now?

Cartoon Head wrote:Tradional values (sic).....a phrase often bandied around, esp by conservatives, ESP those with a religous bent. What exactly are they?

Btw, Sir Bee, where do you live, right now?

Commutersville in the middle of mega conservative epsom.

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:Tradional values (sic).....a phrase often bandied around, esp by conservatives, ESP those with a religous bent. What exactly are they?

Btw, Sir Bee, where do you live, right now?

Commutersville in the middle of mega conservative epsom.

How far is that from Brighton, fella?

Anyway, what I really meant to ask is less about the location, and more about your dwelling place.

Friends? Family? Private let?

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:

CarolinaHound wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:

CarolinaHound wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:That could be true.

Or maybe we are being somewhat 'romantic' in our vision of past generations?

What I am presently trying to figure out right now, is when I went for a sleep today, I left my contact lenses in, and now my eyes are all funny!

They go along well with your funny lookin face. hehehehehe

That IS my face.

I cannot get the mask off.

It was super glued on months ago.

I have to drink and eat through a straw.

Who said anything about the mask?

But you have never seen my face, ya nugget!

The mask is better.

HotParadox wrote:I hope nobody takes this as me being an "age-ist" but I think the folks of yesteryear had a different set of values then some folks do today. When it comes to working hard, no matter how humble the job, they did it and did not look for pity or want something for nothing.

I'm not sure about the US, but in England there definatly has been a breakdown in traditional values. It has become more profit over people, possesions over inner happiness, having children too young because there is more of an expectancy to grow up quicker, etc. (far too many reasons)

Also, the minimum wage laws/worker protection laws have had two bad effects imo. It has made people more content with doing the absolute minimum, thus decreasing their job satisfaction, motivation, etc. and their colleagues too. Also, if someone is taking the piss, it takes so long to get rid of them. People know their rights, but in some cases they are far too well protected.

CarolinaHound wrote:Exactly. I'm just saying what has been the result with such programs in the past. It's a wonderful idea in theory, and a great idea to help people get through the bumps in life we all go through, some getting bumped harder than others. Unfortunately there will always be a bunch of people who take advantage of it and use it as a way of life rather than an opportunity to help themselves move to better things. They make the whole system look bad for the people that really want to make an honest living. And in such situatation lead to the bad over taking the good

So how do we deal with this?

Good question. Perhaps the same as we mentioned with the welfare, if they can't show proof of legitament work by a certain amount of time, they have to go to work for the state or get out? Maybe boot them out if they get arrested for certain crimes?

Cartoon Head wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:Tradional values (sic).....a phrase often bandied around, esp by conservatives, ESP those with a religous bent. What exactly are they?

Btw, Sir Bee, where do you live, right now?

Commutersville in the middle of mega conservative epsom.

How far is that from Brighton, fella?

Anyway, what I really meant to ask is less about the location, and more about your dwelling place.

Friends? Family? Private let?

Privately rented.

I am 30/40 miles away from Brighton. About 20 mins on the train from Londinium.

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:Tradional values (sic).....a phrase often bandied around, esp by conservatives, ESP those with a religous bent. What exactly are they?

Btw, Sir Bee, where do you live, right now?

Commutersville in the middle of mega conservative epsom.

How far is that from Brighton, fella?

Anyway, what I really meant to ask is less about the location, and more about your dwelling place.

Friends? Family? Private let?

Privately rented.

I am 30/40 miles away from Brighton. About 20 mins on the train from Londinium.

Brighton is cool, I like Brighton.

What made you move to were you are?

Surely not a bar manager's job, there would be more choice of that in Brighton, yes?

CarolinaHound wrote:[ Maybe boot them out if they get arrested for certain crimes?

Boot who out for what crimes?

Cartoon Head wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:Tradional values (sic).....a phrase often bandied around, esp by conservatives, ESP those with a religous bent. What exactly are they?

Btw, Sir Bee, where do you live, right now?

Commutersville in the middle of mega conservative epsom.

How far is that from Brighton, fella?

Anyway, what I really meant to ask is less about the location, and more about your dwelling place.

Friends? Family? Private let?

Privately rented.

I am 30/40 miles away from Brighton. About 20 mins on the train from Londinium.

Brighton is cool, I like Brighton.

What made you move to were you are?

Surely not a bar manager's job, there would be more choice of that in Brighton, yes?

My gf started uni here a couple of years ago. I thought that 19 was the right time to move out.

I got transferred/promoted from the job in Brighton to Crawley(shithole by the way), commuting from Epsom to Crawley was 2.5 hours, far too long. Found a Supervisors job in Epsom, and got offered the Assistant Managers position in the interview!!!! hahahahaha. Love running a theatre bar/bistro, much more fun than a straight restaurant.

I miss Brighton a bit. Everywhere else seems to pale into insignificance when compared. We are planning to move back when she finishes uni.

Cartoon Head wrote:

CarolinaHound wrote:[ Maybe boot them out if they get arrested for certain crimes?

Boot who out for what crimes?

The people that move into the housing projects and start dealing drug in them.

CarolinaHound wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:

CarolinaHound wrote:[ Maybe boot them out if they get arrested for certain crimes?

Boot who out for what crimes?

The people that move into the housing projects and start dealing drug in them.

Already covered.

If it can be proven that they are using such housing for that purpose, then they lose their tenancy, and possibly their liberty into the bargain.

What about people who buy a house and start using it to deal drugs from?

Who 'boots' them?

*scratches chin*