Finally good news about POT.

this article is showing that there may be some really good use in the medical field for POT.

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2009/08/03/marijuana-memory.html?campaign=w01-101-ae-0003

hEH-hEH... interesting topic... in this country, through the 1700's, 1800's and 1900's, up until the early 30's, Cannabis, Cocaine and Opiates were avialble for general use and without prescriptions.
It wasn't until the thing with alcohol "prohibition" emerged, and eventually failed, that measures were taken to stop people from using these OTHER drugs. Yes, "other drugs"... because alcohol is the 'national drug' and the reason that prohibition never worked was because people all the way up into high society and the wealthy and famous indulged in alcohol. They did so with the other materials as well. But, I suppose that that our 'moral police' wanted some trophies to salve their injured feelings, wherein they failed to doom alcohol. So, eventually they were heeded to in regard to the other 'devilish materials' that all these people needed some moral mentor to step in and prevent them from sealing their impending doom!
Interesting; when I was about 15 yrs. I worked at a Pharmacy store and delivered drug prescription to various customers in the community. One of the narcotics that they sold, Paragoric, a Opiate was available, without a prescription. Any adult customer could buy about the eqaulivalent of one-half gallon weekly. All they had to do was sign a ledger.
Around those times and earlier on, such as during the times I was an infant and before, it was common practice for people to rub their teething infants sore gums with Paragoric to soothe them. As well, 'colicy infants' and just plain fussy, wouldn't go to sleep infants, were given a teaspoon of the stuff. Then, they sleep really well. The house could have fallen down and they would have still been happy.
Well,the alcohol situation; it has been hashed over, over and over again. It is obvious that in the wrong hands of weak and irresponsible people it has proven many times to be a very deadly and lethal material. Many people have died, been terribly maimed, in traffic incidents caused by drunk drivers. As well, the abusers eventually suffer scirrosis of the liver. srtomach ulcers and kidney failure due to using the stuff. As well, many, many marriages and families have been destroyed due to one person in the household having an alcohol addiction. Not working and abusing family members.
Alchol is actually a poison. It is the waste material cast off by the bacteria that eats the fermenting materials, usually grain mash [pulverized material] with sugar added. The bacteria works on the sugars until the sugars are depleted. Then they die for lack of anything further to eat and low oxygen levels in the remaining liquid.
It will always be around because it was proven long ago that a so called "noble experiment" under the auspices of prohibition sought to prevent the availibility of alcohol. There was more of it after prohibition was declared than before. Much of it was brought into the country illegally from Canada and Cuba and Europe.
So obviously, people are going to have their drugs. Even the marajuana, cocaine and heroin. And lets face it, the DEA and all of the special departments of the various police departments around the country,; they receive a lot of revenue from the government and seized property. So it has proven to be a very lucrative business for law enforcement as well. Probably, if people stopped using narcotics I would imagine that probaly 50 to 60 percent of law enforcement personnel would have to look elsewhere for employment. But of course they are not getting exicted or nervous regarding this prospect, as they know human nature and human nature dictates, amongst other predictable traits, that people will continue on with consuming narcotics, including alcohol.
However, now, recent developments, some DUI or DWI individuals that kill people as a result of traffic collisions I wont refer to them as "accidents" because they are not. Because it is the result of some inconsiderate and irresponsible individual that is intoxicated with alchol and still insist on driving a motor vehicle - in any event, recently there have been several of these individuals prosecuted in criminal court with charges of first and second degree murder charges lodged against them. And at least one 30 year to life term has been passed down to one individual that was drunk, driving on the wrong side of an interstate and collided with a limosuine. The chauffer was killed as well as a twelve year old girl. The rescue people had to cut the limousine remains apart with hydraulic shears to get the other seriously injured people out. THe young man that was driving a pickup truck while intoxicated and in the oncoming lane of the limo. was not seriously injured. As these cases typically go. They wind up killing and seriously maiming people, for life, and the usually just walk away.

The history of marijuana prohibition is largely a history of racism. You can go back and look at the newspaper articles from the time when it was first made illegal, and they're quite shocking by today's standards.

Headlines such as "Marijuana gives black men the audacity to look white men in the eye." "Marijuana makes women attracted to black men." and things like that. Also, marijuana was very popular amongst Mexican immigrants, and one of the reasons it was prohibited was to discourage immigrants from south of the border.

Once marijuana was made illegal, the department started to expand. By pushing to make other drugs illegal as well they were able to get more money, and so it went on and on.

Also, there's very little evidence to suggest that prohibition has any affect on consumption. Those countries that have either prohibit drugs and then made them illegal, or vice versa, have shown only slight differences in levels of consumption. People just don't care one way or another, like Coontie pointed out was the case during prohibition.

Take a look at America. You've got (IMO) ridiculously stiff sentences for minor drug charges and the highest percentage of people in prison in the world, but does it discourage people from doing drugs? Of course not.

finally lol xxx

Kazza wrote:Also, there's very little evidence to suggest that prohibition has any affect on consumption. Those countries that have either prohibit drugs and then made them illegal, or vice versa, have shown only slight differences in levels of consumption. People just don't care one way or another, like Coontie pointed out was the case during prohibition.

Take a look at America. You've got (IMO) ridiculously stiff sentences for minor drug charges and the highest percentage of people in prison in the world, but does it discourage people from doing drugs? Of course not.

Did you even read the article? This is not about taking drugs or whether or not it is good for you or not or what the law is or what the sentnece for breaking the law is. It seem that you just can't resist taking a shot at my country can you? I have never said one thing about your country and I wont. I have better manners. Maybe you should take the time to read the entire article. You can read can't you?

Old Timer wrote:this article is showing that there may be some really good use in the medical field for POT.

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2009/08/03/marijuana-memory.html?campaign=w01-101-ae-0003

Very interesting article OT, I know your stance on things of this nature, and well, if you don't know mine by now, you haven't been paying attention ...ANyway, personally, I feel that anything, and I mean anything that bridges the gap between the two sides of this issue is a good thing...Like this article for instance, sure, it might be basically stating that, down the road, the plant Marijuana could be bi-passed completely by isolating the chemicals that are found to be beneficial (bummer for my side) but at least it is a way to start a dialogue that separates the contrivercy from the potential benifits (for mankind as a whole)

That would be about 1/2 of my two cents

Old Timer wrote:

Kazza wrote:Also, there's very little evidence to suggest that prohibition has any affect on consumption. Those countries that have either prohibit drugs and then made them illegal, or vice versa, have shown only slight differences in levels of consumption. People just don't care one way or another, like Coontie pointed out was the case during prohibition.

Take a look at America. You've got (IMO) ridiculously stiff sentences for minor drug charges and the highest percentage of people in prison in the world, but does it discourage people from doing drugs? Of course not.

Did you even read the article? This is not about taking drugs or whether or not it is good for you or not or what the law is or what the sentnece for breaking the law is. It seem that you just can't resist taking a shot at my country can you? I have never said one thing about your country and I wont. I have better manners. Maybe you should take the time to read the entire article. You can read can't you?

Yeah Jim, I'm sure that everyone read the article and gets the jist of what it implies and is directed towards. However, this is part of a historical "can of worms" [always controversial] wherein once any article pertaining to such just repopens past debates and pics back out into the consciounesss of our planetary society just what is one everyone's minds in regards to these materials. And it always proves to be appropriately so. After all, a sensible and worthy national public forum has never been instigated in this regard; the narcotics controversey}.
It is not just a U.S. situation, problem and issues, but planet-wide. As he is understandably suggesting and emphasizing is that for obviously monetary convience sake most nation's laws have taken to "owning it" to realize more finances for the support of their industry. Yes, industry. Because they are obviously geared more to be a self-serving, self-perpuating entity than to be a realisitc and constructive body in addressing the and correcting the real issues involved with narcotics abuse.
Kazza realizes this, I am sure. There is as much controversy in Australia as here. Maybe, perhaps, they are just dealing with it better and more realistically. I don't think he was implying that we are any more corrupt or worse than any other nation. Just larger and more people, so therefore the situations, issues and problems are amplified. Afterall, we are at the apex of the planet's community, therefore, like somebody that has dropped their pants in public, we instantly and critically get more attention. As well because we continue to be and remain the leader of the world. It would certainly be different without us. for sure! And I think it is always good for a citizen of any nation to exhibit national pride, but when they allow ignorance to blind them to their faults, that is one of the greatest and gravest exhbitions of hubris and stupidity.
In the present, it is really rather difficult to isolate and accuse any one nation of being any worse, or saying it is better than some other, because ever more we are very much connected. So it's every ones issues and problems.
Anyhow, good article. It is informative, stimuilates conversation and exchange of opinions and ideas, which is good for all of us. Thanks!

I know and understand what you are talking about. But ite still rankles my fur when others from abroad always seem to want to find fault with us. They should clean up their own back yard first. That article was posted to show that ther may well be some very good benefits derived from cannibus. I have stated my opinion here and on other foums many times and will not change them. If it is against the law and it is illegal. Right or wrong it is illegal. If you use it without a prescription then you are breaking the law and that makes you a criminal. That is the letter of the law and nothing anyone can say will change that. Right or wrong the law must be respecrted and obeyed. It is not up to the individual to say it is ok to obey this one but not that one. If people believe that the law is wrong or unjust then they should take legal steps to have the law either changed or removed. I just hope that what they are trying to do works as it would be a great thing for an awful lot of folks. And that is all I go to say about that.

Old Timer wrote:I know and understand what you are talking about. But ite still rankles my fur when others from abroad always seem to want to find fault with us. They should clean up their own back yard first. That article was posted to show that ther may well be some very good benefits derived from cannibus. I have stated my opinion here and on other foums many times and will not change them. If it is against the law and it is illegal. Right or wrong it is illegal. If you use it without a prescription then you are breaking the law and that makes you a criminal. That is the letter of the law and nothing anyone can say will change that. Right or wrong the law must be respecrted and obeyed. It is not up to the individual to say it is ok to obey this one but not that one. If people believe that the law is wrong or unjust then they should take legal steps to have the law either changed or removed. I just hope that what they are trying to do works as it would be a great thing for an awful lot of folks. And that is all I go to say about that.

Well Jim, that is like when somebody tells someone that they are without fault or sin; all they usually get in return is a very prounced pensive look. Because right away they have verified that by being a liar...
So what can one do? As you well realize, just kindly allow for it and go on...

coontie wrote:

Old Timer wrote:I know and understand what you are talking about. But ite still rankles my fur when others from abroad always seem to want to find fault with us. They should clean up their own back yard first. That article was posted to show that ther may well be some very good benefits derived from cannibus. I have stated my opinion here and on other foums many times and will not change them. If it is against the law and it is illegal. Right or wrong it is illegal. If you use it without a prescription then you are breaking the law and that makes you a criminal. That is the letter of the law and nothing anyone can say will change that. Right or wrong the law must be respecrted and obeyed. It is not up to the individual to say it is ok to obey this one but not that one. If people believe that the law is wrong or unjust then they should take legal steps to have the law either changed or removed. I just hope that what they are trying to do works as it would be a great thing for an awful lot of folks. And that is all I go to say about that.

Well Jim, that is like when somebody tells someone that they are without fault or sin; all they usually get in return is a very prounced pensive look. Because right away they have verified that by being a liar...
So what can one do? As you well realize, just kindly allow for it and go on...

I will do just what I have always done Julian. I will say what I have to say and move on. If the other person wants to explore other avenues that is up to them.

Old Timer wrote:

coontie wrote:

Old Timer wrote:I know and understand what you are talking about. But ite still rankles my fur when others from abroad always seem to want to find fault with us. They should clean up their own back yard first. That article was posted to show that ther may well be some very good benefits derived from cannibus. I have stated my opinion here and on other foums many times and will not change them. If it is against the law and it is illegal. Right or wrong it is illegal. If you use it without a prescription then you are breaking the law and that makes you a criminal. That is the letter of the law and nothing anyone can say will change that. Right or wrong the law must be respecrted and obeyed. It is not up to the individual to say it is ok to obey this one but not that one. If people believe that the law is wrong or unjust then they should take legal steps to have the law either changed or removed. I just hope that what they are trying to do works as it would be a great thing for an awful lot of folks. And that is all I go to say about that.

Well Jim, that is like when somebody tells someone that they are without fault or sin; all they usually get in return is a very prounced pensive look. Because right away they have verified that by being a liar...
So what can one do? As you well realize, just kindly allow for it and go on...

I will do just what I have always done Julian. I will say what I have to say and move on. If the other person wants to explore other avenues that is up to them.

There ya' go Jim; an old sixtie's song; "Give Peace A Chance"... As well,, no sense in getting your shorts in a knot over nothing! After all, all of this stuff including you, me and the rest are just virtual circumstances, which are composed of !'s and 0's [binary] converted to Hexi-decimal and then to ASCII characters. Then converted to so many pixels [light spots] that appear on your viewing screen as printed material. So no sense in working yourself into a lather and having a seizure over...
I mean, over that all of that, in much less than a hundred years, for you and I it wont make a damn for anything!

Old Timer wrote:

Kazza wrote:Also, there's very little evidence to suggest that prohibition has any affect on consumption. Those countries that have either prohibit drugs and then made them illegal, or vice versa, have shown only slight differences in levels of consumption. People just don't care one way or another, like Coontie pointed out was the case during prohibition.

Take a look at America. You've got (IMO) ridiculously stiff sentences for minor drug charges and the highest percentage of people in prison in the world, but does it discourage people from doing drugs? Of course not.

Did you even read the article? This is not about taking drugs or whether or not it is good for you or not or what the law is or what the sentnece for breaking the law is. It seem that you just can't resist taking a shot at my country can you? I have never said one thing about your country and I wont. I have better manners. Maybe you should take the time to read the entire article. You can read can't you?

We have ridiculous laws here as well, but I use America as an example because almost all the people on this board are American, and like it or not the US, as far as I know, has the stiffest penalties for drug use in the Western world. If you're going to pick examples to look at the effectiveness of prohibition then Denmark and the US are the two obvious choices. Additionally, the US is the most talked about nation in the world, so if I use the US as an example it's because 90% of the documentaries I watch and articles I read relate to the US. Like most people in the world, I know what goes on in my own country and I know what goes in the US.

If I started talking about the differences in drug law between Victoria and South Australia no one on this board would understand. I could have said "Do the stiffer penalties for drug use in Victoria result in fewer drug users? No, we still have the highest rates of Heroin overdose," and none of you would know what I was talking about. I could use other examples too. Does the threat of the death sentence stop people from smuggling drugs into Vietnam? No, it doesn't do it there either. Am I now having a go at Vietnam?

Also, I wasn't the one that started talking about prohibition, I was just agreeing with the points that Coontie made.


As for the original article, yes, it's great that they're able to reduce the affects on memory, although it was my understanding that marijuana only permanently affected memory when the user started long term use before their early twenties. Since I would imagine that most of the people who need medical marijuana are older than this it seems like the real need for this research is political, rather than medical. Afterall, I bet being in constant pain has a worse impact on your memory than marijuana. Any progress like this is a good, but I don't think the objections to prescription marijuana are based on logic anyway, so I wonder whether or not this will have much impact in progressing the cause.

pot's a misdemeanor in MA kids!

HotParadox wrote:pot's a misdemeanor in MA kids!

Depends on how much ya get caught with.

Kazza said: "If I started talking about the differences in drug law between Victoria and South Australia no one on this board would understand. I could have said "Do the stiffer penalties for drug use in Victoria result in fewer drug users? No, we still have the highest rates of Heroin overdose," and none of you would know what I was talking about."

Hi Kazza. I see the 'ol globe has turned so that the sun rise once again in the fair land of Australia. Hope all's well with you. I think I understand what you mean in regard to your quoted statement.
I comprehend the circumstance that the addage "laws are made to be broken" is always accurate. So it is with the situation that you mention. Various individual humans are going to be just that; people that have their own agendas and motivations. With many, for them to heed laws and appeals to "do what is right", just merely the idea that they are being prohibited is all it takes for them to impel them to do just what they are being prohibited from.
The public in most advance countries generally has the impression [the moral, better than thous folks, that think they are supposed to determine the morals and ethical standards of the public at large] have the impression that if it wasn't for their laws governing narcotics, which are mostly stupid. Because being so, they just encourage more narcotics trafficking because there is more money to be made selling the stuff. Therefore, the addicts resort to theft and other crimes including prostituion [shouldn't be illegal either [just makes matters worse and encourages more crime there]. The do gooders think that the laws hold in check narcotics users and result in less people "using." However, those that do so are going to do it anyways and they generally wouldn't ccause any major problems if it didn't cost them what it does to support their habit. NOt any more people would resort to narcotics than they do now.
Speaking of prostitution being illegal; I was in Japan for several years and prostitution is legal there and the women have clinics where they can go and get checkups [mandatory]. Of course there are some, for whatever reason I have no idea, that will not go. Perhaps because they just like to break the law or just don't care. So they wind up with V.D. and undesired pregnancies, which they usuall hire some quack doctor or a friend to assist them in aborting.
Addiction is pretty tough. I haven't ever experienced any of it, including alcohol addiction. I am thanksful for that. I have occasionally induilged in alcohol from time to time - mostly beer and wine. Got sick on the stuff a couple of times, which didn't feel very good and helped me to decide it wans't for me. Some die hards told me: "well, you just get sick and throw up and then go back and drink some more. Not for me! As far as I am concerned that is a fools game.
Marajuna? I tried it a couple of times just to have the experience. No, I didn't go and kill somebody, or become a raging sex maniac nor was my head emptied of all of it's thoughts. Nor did I graduate to cocaine or heroin. Interesting experience [marajuna] I thought. No too bad on a occasional recreational footing. Now, habitual daily use? Probably a problem. The people with the medical problems that smoke the weed; I agree with you - they are better off doing that then suffering the pain and discomfort from whatever their malady. So, they're "faking it", just to legally get marajuana. So What? I or anyone else, and you folks in Australia and whereever else, can get all of the beer , wine and whiskey you desire, I am sure.
I lived in Pakistan for about four years. While there, mostly amongst the Muslims that are not supposed to indulge in tobbacco, alcohol and narcotics, more often than not I fond many of them pursued possesion of all of those materials and readily indulged in it. Hashish was the big narcotics ticket there. Most of it came straight from the poppy fields across the mountains, west of us, in Afghanistan. That was Peshawar...
And don't be so sensitive about 'ol fuzz-nuts O.T. He just sometimes gets up on the wall side of teh bed and it just takes him a while to figure out how to get down. In the meantime he gets a bit rankled. But it will eventually wear off.
All is well.. and blessings to you and all of yours...

Good post Coontie, I agree 100% with what you wrote. From what I've heard of Muslim countries, while all sorts of things are banned, it is those people in high places who banned them that actually partake in them the most.

And off-topic: Just noticed your signature. I'm right now (in another window) booking myself a holiday to go to Kathmandu in February I'm trying to arrange some sort of an adventure/hiking/rafting/paragliding holiday while I'm there.

Just make sure you don't drift off course and into a country that will lock you up for a long stint of hard labor Kazza.

Kuddos to Bill Clinton. He sure does have a way with short Brunettes.

I mean Kim that is....

Kazza wrote:Good post Coontie, I agree 100% with what you wrote. From what I've heard of Muslim countries, while all sorts of things are banned, it is those people in high places who banned them that actually partake in them the most.

And off-topic: Just noticed your signature. I'm right now (in another window) booking myself a holiday to go to Kathmandu in February I'm trying to arrange some sort of an adventure/hiking/rafting/paragliding holiday while I'm there.

Hey, that's great, that you're going to Katmandu! I'm envious of you ya' have to know... Wish I was going with you. Seems as though you would be an enjoyable and interesting sort of person to travel with to such places.
I have a long-known East Indian friend that keeps inviting me to go there with him. He goes every year. I suppose that I will eventually do so.
I suppose you are aware that West Pakistan was once part of India, as well as East, Pakistan. They annexed both and turned them over to the Muslims in an attempt o alleviate the discord, mostly between the Muslims and all of the other people of different beliefs that they resufesed to peacefully coexist with.
Some tried and true traveler's advice. Don't drink the water, wash all fruit and fresh vegetables before eating. Otherwise make sure that everything you eat is well cooked!

CarolinaHound wrote:Just make sure you don't drift off course and into a country that will lock you up for a long stint of hard labor Kazza.

Kuddos to Bill Clinton. He sure does have a way with short Brunettes.

I mean Kim that is....

you're just jealous, Don!

And don't be so sensitive about 'ol fuzz-nuts O.T. He just sometimes gets up on the wall side of teh bed and it just takes him a while to figure out how to get down. In the meantime he gets a bit rankled. But it will eventually wear off.

What do you mean "SOMETIMES" that has become part of my daily routine now. And besides it is more fun to be totally off of the wall anyway.

This video backs some of what KAZZA was saying.