Are RC's Christians?

Old Timer wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Old Timer wrote:

HotParadox wrote:

Old Timer wrote:

HotParadox wrote:Exactly, OT. And if people are suggesting that the Pope of today has the power to scare people into going to church at all; well, that notion has me in stitches.

He don't have the power to do squat unless someone wants to bend over for him. He is just an ordinary man just like the rest of us. And that goes for the leader of any church group or priest or pastor or reverend or whatever you want to call them. They only have power if you give it to them. I don't.

Understand, though OT, that the whole point in posting this anti-Catholic piece was to, once again, crap on the Catholic Church. I wonder, what brings a person to keep harping on their hatred for things related to God so much. To be so obsessed with something that you so ardently reject is, in of itself, unstable and curious human behavior.

That is so true. It seems to me that a lot of folks will reject and condem those things that they can not, do not and will not ever be able to understand. I was basially raised as a baptist then later tried the catholic church and a few others as well. I guess I just kind of formed my own beliefs. I respect all for what they basically are and condem none for their beliefs.

Reminds me of the ardent homophobics who deep down are really curious and unsettled by that fact.

I said it somewhere else, lack of education leads to intolerance via ignorance. This is where the problems with religion lie. Why some people can't accept that others don't think the same as themselves, and that that is, in fact, one of the most beautiful things about humans, makes me feel a little hollow inside.

"He who will not reason is a bigot, he who cannot is a fool, and he who will not is a slave" - Sir William Drummond

Kind of sounds like you have just described some folks that have posted here doesn't it.

Don't be so hard on yourself...

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Old Timer wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Old Timer wrote:

HotParadox wrote:

Old Timer wrote:

HotParadox wrote:Exactly, OT. And if people are suggesting that the Pope of today has the power to scare people into going to church at all; well, that notion has me in stitches.

He don't have the power to do squat unless someone wants to bend over for him. He is just an ordinary man just like the rest of us. And that goes for the leader of any church group or priest or pastor or reverend or whatever you want to call them. They only have power if you give it to them. I don't.

Understand, though OT, that the whole point in posting this anti-Catholic piece was to, once again, crap on the Catholic Church. I wonder, what brings a person to keep harping on their hatred for things related to God so much. To be so obsessed with something that you so ardently reject is, in of itself, unstable and curious human behavior.

That is so true. It seems to me that a lot of folks will reject and condem those things that they can not, do not and will not ever be able to understand. I was basially raised as a baptist then later tried the catholic church and a few others as well. I guess I just kind of formed my own beliefs. I respect all for what they basically are and condem none for their beliefs.

Reminds me of the ardent homophobics who deep down are really curious and unsettled by that fact.

I said it somewhere else, lack of education leads to intolerance via ignorance. This is where the problems with religion lie. Why some people can't accept that others don't think the same as themselves, and that that is, in fact, one of the most beautiful things about humans, makes me feel a little hollow inside.

"He who will not reason is a bigot, he who cannot is a fool, and he who will not is a slave" - Sir William Drummond

Kind of sounds like you have just described some folks that have posted here doesn't it.

Don't be so hard on yourself...

I wasn't.

HotParadox wrote:Gosh, how awful that the Pope wants people to go to church on Sunday. Just like my evangelical Pastor wants me to do. Just like all Protestant churches nationwide do. Church on Sunday. What will become of our children if they go worship the Lord on one set day? Watch the horror unfold.

Isn't their another day that perhaps the Pope could force his congregation on which to worship the Lord, just to shut up the excruciatingly Politically Correct?

To think that the Pope could force anybody to do anything, is comical in itself.

Another thing that tickles me silly is that this piece refers to Herbert W. Armstrong, as though he were anything but a psychotic, power hungry leader of a non-Biblical church. Check him out on wiki or just google him and see what comes up for Mr. Armstrong. It's not pretty, to say the least, and the fact that this piece pays any credence to him, speaks volumes for the outright bias of this author. In fact, his entire brand of religion was based on killing off the Catholic Church.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_W._Armstrong

In part:Personality, personal conduct, and governance:

Armstrong’s manner of leadership and the resultant church culture in
the Worldwide Church of God (prior to his death) have fueled much
controversy:

• Critics allege that the original Worldwide Church of God was a Cult^[97] and that Armstrong exhibited symptoms of psychosis^[98].
  
• Websites created and frequented by ex-members state that Herbert
  Armstrong and the WCG (prior to Armstrong's death) created a highly
  destructive environment. Accusations abound of spiritual abuse,
  suicide, child abuse, etc., and include allegations that Armstrong
  committed incest.^{[99][100][101][102]}
  
• Armstrong and senior church personnel were often criticized for
  having lived in extravagant wealth when many church members paid three
  tithes and consequently often lived in relative poverty. Personal
  luxuries enjoyed by Armstrong included lavish residences, a personal
  jet, and the finest jewelry, clothing, furniture and other conveniences.^{[103][104][105]}
  

Theological:

• The demonization of 'mainstream' Christianity: Armstrong
  believed that early Christianity was corrupted through the absorption
  of many pagan traditions and influences, and that the true form of
  Christianity was oppressed.^[82]
  He associated this corrupted form of Christianity with Roman
  Catholicism and the various other denominations that arose out of
  Catholicism^[83].
  Critics believe that this represents a demonization of 'mainstream'
  Christianity and is an attempt to present an exclusively correct form
  of 'true' and 'authentic' Christianity, i.e. 'Armstrongism', as the only way to receive Salvation.^[84]
  

• Prophetic predictions: Proponents believed that Herbert
  Armstrong was inspired by God and had the gift to understand prophecy.
  They believe that many of his predictions were inspired^[85]. Critics counter that Armstrong's predictions were rife with speculation and remain mostly unfulfilled.^[86]
  

• British Israelism:
  Armstrong taught a form of British Israelism, which is the belief that
  those of Western European descent, notably England (Ephraim) and the
  United States (Mannasseh), are direct descendants of the ancient
  northern Kingdom of Israel. The theory is inconsistent with the
  findings of modern research on the genetic history of Jews,^{[87][88][89][90]} and is commonly criticized for poor standards of research,^[91][92] and general inconsistency with archeological, anthropological and linguistic research.^{[93][94][95][96]}
  

Going to church isn't a bad thing. However, recognizing Sunday and such is capitulating to Rome's day of worship. The original Sabbath day is the same one the Jews adhere to and hasn't changed since the Garden of Eden. If a church proclaims to be a Protestant church, they should not be following the same day as Rome. If they do, they truly aren't Protestant.

The piece was written by someone who is observing the Catholic church and their push to have Sunday observance enshrined into the laws of the land, something all of us should be protesting. Once a Sunday law is passed, religious liberty will eventually become extinct.

Personally, I like the concept of having the option to attend church or not without someone forcing me to attend, especially on a Sunday. God didn't proclaim Sunday as the Sabbath, nor is there any Scriptural text supporting Sunday worship.

Who will we follow? God or man? The Vatican is presently working on pushing through a form of Sunday observance in the EU. If it succeeds, North America is next.

No one is forcing you, AC! Do you think they are going to really force anyone to do anything? You're free to go or not. Honestly, sweetie, you know how I feel about you! You're just getting a little too worked up! BTW, the Blue Laws were enforced in MA up until a few years ago and some still are, and guess what? We are amongst, if not the most, liberal state in the Union! Long live the Separation of Church and State!
XOV

HotParadox wrote:No one is forcing you, AC! Do you think they are going to really force anyone to do anything? You're free to go or not. Honestly, sweetie, you know how I feel about you! You're just getting a little too worked up! BTW, the Blue Laws were enforced in MA up until a few years ago and some still are, and guess what? We are amongst, if not the most, liberal state in the Union! Long live the Separation of Church and State!
XOV

No one is forcing any one yet. I know too well what the Vatican represents. Aren't you alarmed at their push to have Sunday observed as a rest day thereby declaring that people can be prosecuted if they infringe and work on that day? I will post some comments from people living in Europe and one in particular who was upset that someone dared to do lawn work on Sunday. Those people are nuts.

Edit: It was a circular saw, not a lawn mower or something which disturbed the lady on Sunday. My mistake.

Should Sunday still be special in Europe?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/132253.stm

Comments to the article:

I think Sundays should remain sacrosanct during the working week. It is often convenient to purchase some food items on a Sunday, but I would like to see this as a day totally removed from work and an official day for relaxation. I don't approve of high street stores opening on Sunday or even football being played on a Sunday. So please, leave Sunday alone!
Simon Porch, United Kingdom

Western Europe should cherish its proud tradition of secular governments. I would hate to see European governments succumb to the demands of religious zealots as is the US government.
Edward Cheng, USA

I would suggest keeping Sunday special for as long as possible; one day without traffic and hectic commercialism is a nice thing.
Terry Swan, USA

Comments about Sunday workers seem limited to day workers. Nobody is suggesting that shift workers don't work on Sunday. I'm sure a few people would complain if workers in the electricity, emergency services, radio/TV, transport etc, industries wanted to keep their Sundays special and not work. I think the question of how to spend Sunday should be up to the individual - whether to spend the day going to church/reading the Bible, going for a walk in the country, catching up on DIY or staying in bed all day, should be a matter of personal choice.
John Holford, UK

Sunday is a day of rest! Here in Germany it is respected as such and the law protects the public. There are no shops open (except florists and bakers but then only for a few hours) and a noise-ban law is in effect! Recently, while on holiday in England, I was rudely awoken at 8am on a Sunday by a builder and his circular saw, building a roof right next door to the police station. Here he would have been arrested and quite rightly so! In England it seems to be the norm to cut grass and wash cars on a Sunday - disgraceful!
Simon J Crozier, Germany

I think Sundays should still be special because it is the Lord's day, but then again there should still be no change in the day except going to church.
Gina, USA

Yes and no. It should be up to each individual whether or not Sunday is special. But those who would like it to be special shouldn't be able to hinder those who don't. For example here in Northern Ireland, in councils which are controlled by Ian Paisley's Democratic Unionist Party, a fundamentalist Protestant party, go and tie up swings in parks on a Sunday because they believe that it is a day of rest. That shouldn't be allowed.
Shane Quinn, Northern Ireland

I get rather fed up with religious types moralising about how the rest of us should live our lives. I do think that it is important that the rights of workers to have time off are protected. But I see no reason why this should prevent shops/bars etc opening on any day they choose if market forces demand.
C Bellamy, England

Define "special". If you mean one of the two rest days of a five-day working week, of course it should. But if you mean a day on which it's illegal to buy or sell certain goods, or when special attention should be paid to certain religious groups, absolutely not.
Geoff Arnold, USA

Sunday isn't special - so asking whether it should still be special is a bit silly. Only a minority of the population are practising christians, and it is only them who insist on barbaric laws restricting what ordinary citizens can do. There is no logical reason, for instance, why I shouldn't be able to buy a beer at 10:45 on a Sunday evening. No logical reason, that is, except in the eyes of religious nutcases.
David Cantrell, UK

There should be one day free of commercial activity just to maintain the illusion that there is more to life than shopping. Stores open 24 hrs per day, seven days per week is so venal: are we nothing but homo-economicus?
Don Andrews, USA

Why should people with certain religious beliefs dictate what the rest of us may or may not do on one day of the week?
Phil Harrison, UK

The inexorable drive for profits leads many businesses to place employees under intense pressure to work on a Sunday despite the so-called moral opt-out. We humans need one day in seven to recharge ourselves, physically and spiritually. To substitute another day when one's social or religious companions are working is an incomplete solution. For those who see Christianity as a delusion, I would remind them of the benefits which many Western countries enjoy now as a result of that "delusion" and of the great debt which we in the UK owe to the faith of our forefathers. There is a deep spiritual aspect to this debate. If you do not understand it, please do not be so arrogant as to assume that it is therefore irrelevant!
Steve MacLean, UK

Only a stupid nation would throw away a day of rest. The only thing gained would be momentary satisfaction for those who despise all things Christian. Their loss. I only envisage a more awkward life for the whole nation, if we have no beginning, and no end to the unrelenting hamster-wheel of working life. Beware of those companies who will undoubtably begin descriminating against "awkward" family-minded employees who insist on having Sundays off.
Francis Orr-Ewing, UK

The introduction of Sunday shopping in Britain has meant it is really just like any other day. Here in Bucharest, food shops are open in the mornings on Sundays, and corner shops longer, but most others are still closed. I think I prefer this as it does make Sundays more restful. Stress is the bane of modern existence, so anything that reduces it, such as a more relaxed day on Sundays is to be applauded - move all those political interviews from Sunday to Monday, too! - or Friday, so people get a proper weekend.
Neville Townsend, Romania

We in Indonesia really miss Sunday as a special day so why do you in Europe want to make Sunday an ordinary day?
Moekti, Indonesia

Sunday is a day to catch up the last week's and next week's things. In other words getting ready.
Kanaha, Sri Lanka

Church first, relax second.
Ray Williams, USA

Assuming that Sunday is the Sabbath instead of Saturday as stated in the Bible; I think Sundays should be sacred. We have six full days for ourselves. How selfish of us, to not want to sacrifice at least one day in God's name.
C Walter, USA

Religion is just a concept, contrived to try and explain why we are here and one that is rapidly being replaced by science, although I agree there are still some points that science can't explain, but it will in time. Surely it is strange that we should keep one day for worship.
I think it is now widely accepted that the world was not created in 7 days, it took evolution billions of years to reach where we are today. If taking Sunday to rest is emulating the beliefs of people of the time that God rested on the 7th day, perhaps we should emulate modern beliefs and not rest at all; relentlessly working on for billions of years.
Daniel Cockerton, England

No - Sunday was called a "holy" day for the political advancement of pagan Roman emperors. Sunday is never mentioned in the Scriptures as being holy. Legislation should not enforce any form of worship, let alone one where the roots are in political wrangling and deception.
Jon Stone, Britain

Yes I believe it is a wise decision to keep Sunday sacred. It is a way of acknowledging that we are creatures of God. Materialism makes us forget God. We can still enjoy Sundays. Just place God first. The Pope says unfashionable things. But he is right again.
Gerard Leahy, Australia

I try to be a practising Christian. But even I believe that circumstances have changed over the centuries, so that we have to accept the belief that Sunday as the day of worship and the day of rest, has also changed. Our lifestyle has also changed. I am sure that our God, as a loving and caring God, knows that our needs have changed. He will also accept that Sunday or the Sabbath etc cannot always be set aside for worship as long as the faithful set aside some time for serious contemplation!
Noel Slater, UK

We must not forget that Sunday is a holiday because it is sacred. This day should be a day of meditation and worship. The spirit needs care as much as other things. Life that is only a succession of work and empty, boring weekends is meaningless. Spirituality gives us determination and hope.
Elie Rassi, Lebanon

In our hectic world it is of extreme importance to reserve one day a week for activities which tend to be neglected on other days. Families in which both parents have jobs are on the increase. The father usually leaves home before the children are up and he frequently returns home (long) after the children have gone to bed. So hardly any meals are taken together and hence very little contact/communication with the children, which is, I think, a bad thing. One day a week where attention is focused on personal relationships, on moral matters, on questions concerning the quality of life, on the strengthening of family ties is crucial. Many divorces and problems with children have their roots in a lack of communication, in superficial and hectic lifestyles. We are much too concerned with earning money, buying expensive houses and luxury goods and with problems concerning how to pay the mortgage or the instalments on the goods we bought on credit. Meanwhile we often fail to realise how personal relationships suffer.
PAGW Broch, The Netherlands

Why should anyone dictate to us what we can do on Sundays?
B Newton, England

The significance of Sunday being special or sacred, if you may, has both biblical and practical implications. For believers, the Holy Scripture, particularly the Old Testament, is sufficient evidence of this. On a more mundane scale of reasoning, one may consider Sunday as a day for "taking stock", for healing both mind and body, and "recharging the battery" ie preparing for next week's business of going about the exigencies of living.
Dr Nelia P Salazar, Thailand

Living in the USA, where Sundays have become just another day of the week, the answer is yes! When the question came up in the USA I heard the same comments I hear now in England. The weekend is the only time I have to shop. Sundays are too boring. It will be better for business.
After more than twenty years of 'everything goes' on Sunday, people still have no time. This time they have no time to shop, or to smell the roses.
George, USA

I enjoy Sundays. The papers, the pub, a large lunch. Because I am no longer an active Christian, it doesn't include Church. But I would regret Sunday becoming any more like any other day. People already shop on Sundays and most other facilities now seem available. What about the people who have to provide them? For them, Sundays are special no longer.
Jack Johnson, UK

As a Christian I believe that God requires of us one day in seven for rest and worship. What I don't think is fully appreciated is that this MAKES SENSE, and we ignore it to our cost.
Roddie Rankin, Scotland

If a person is a member of a religion and wishes to keep a particular day for religous observances then they should be able to. However this should not restrict the activities of the rest of us.
Richard Read, UK

Sundays have always been boring, with nothing to do. The weekends are the only chance I have to get to a bank, or go shopping. My Saturdays are usually taken up following my football team, leaving Sunday my only free day. I'm all in favour of making Sunday no different from any other day of the week.
Nick Curtis, England

continued...

For those of us who are not Christian, and do not want to be Christian, I find it an unjustifiable intrusion into my life. I am happy to respect other people's religious beliefs, and those who want Sunday off for that reason are welcome to, but do not force it on the rest of us. Of course there may be situations where people may be asked (and feel obliged) to do something on Sunday against their will - but surely it is possible to pass laws and so on to combat this problem. Religion is meant to be a personal matter and not forced on us and future generations.
Dr Christopher P Hood, England

If everyone were to keep Sundays sacred including nurses, doctors, policemen/women, firemen/women, security guards and other essential workers, and they were to decide not to work, where would the world be? Some of these things have now become impossible to do and the Pope should realize the context under which these things happen.
Ada O, UK

Why Sundays? What if groups of atheists or adherents of other faiths adopt several other days in the week (in large numbers)? When will ordinary people be allowed to drudge through our mundane jobs (jobs which incidentally keep our societies intact). Get a job!
Tony Esuk, UK

Sunday, as a day of rest or worship, is particular to Christians; other religions have different observances. People have different beliefs and working patterns. Most important, in our modern world, is that people can find the time to be with family and friends. Individuals should therefore be allowed to choose, within the constraints of their chosen employer's operations, which day(s) of the week they take as rest days and what they do with them. Religion may play a part for those who are so inclined but should not be imposed on those who are not.
Allister Steele, UK

In a democratic, pluralistic society, how can a single day be chosen for such a purpose? What if, for example, the Dalai Lama, suggested that all people observe full moon and new moon periods as special in the same way that mahy Christians feel about Sundays? These are private matters and should be observed privately, by individuals and groups.
Frank Gorin, USA

I know that there is no God so holding Sunday's sacred is just rubbish to me. However, I do realize that some people are foolish enough to be suckered in by religion so if they want to hold Sunday, or Saturday, or whatever day they want (depending upon what foolish religion they believe in), that's fine by me. Just don't force it on the rest of us folks who are sane and grounded.
Steven Roelofs, USA

If we don't allow some space in crowded lives for the more important things - family, friends, communities, God - we are just rushing headlong to our end.
Bill Rogers, England

A religious persuasion, and especially a Christian faith, should permeate the whole week, not just the Sunday. Nevertheless, having a collective days' rest is healthy for a society and for individuals, as God told us, and being able to hold church services on that day is a very practical advantage.
Gerben Vos, The Netherlands

The loss of Sunday rest and worship is directly related to the increase in despair, depression, suicide, loss of values and violence. It is high time to turn back to the ten commandments and explain to people that this was not just a list of recommendations to a gang of wandering slaves so many years ago. Each one has a deep foundation in what is required for men to live in society in a healthy and positive manner.
Peter Leeson, UK

Dispensing with Sunday as a special day is an integral part of the march of modern life. But where has modern life left us? A generation that sees hope in Prozac has a thing or two to learn.
Robert Varnam, UK

Sunday should be kept free as it is nice to be able to do nothing just one day a week. Those using services such as shops enjoy it but those supplying services should be given a day of rest. After all that is what it is for!?
Alan Little, England

It is appropriate for Christians to observe Sunday as the Sabbath - as the Pope, as leader of one denomination of the Christian Church, was right to point out to those that are under his leadership.
The majority of people today have not bothered to investigate this vital aspect of their lives and that is their loss. It is not appropriate for Christians to impose their practices, through legislation, on those that do not follow their beliefs. Similarly it is not appropriate for those that do not have those beliefs to mock those that do, or attempt to prevent them from observing their traditions.
Those that choose to ignore God will simply have to bear the consequences should they eventually be proved wrong. In today's society where information on this and so many other subjects is so readily available, they shall not be able to whine to God that they just didn't know.
Marcus Oakland, England

Sunday should be special, but not in any religious sense - I can think of nothing more offensive in a multicultural society.
However, more than ever these days, we need at least one day of the week - one specific day that is - for people to remember that there's more to life than work and money. There are of course those with vested interests who begrudge any interruption to the flow of their profits, and try to justify 7-day working under the guise of 'public service'. Let's see double-time rates of pay for Sundays made compulsory under the law to counter those employers with no respect for family life.
Incidentally, I did take the Pope's advice about swimming against the tide some years ago - I consigned the whole bigoted, divisive nonsense of organised religion to the dustbin of history where it belongs. The weekly day of rest pre-dates Christianity, and with a little luck will survive it.
John Luby, Scotland

Sundays are sacred. We all worship the gods of shopping and football and pray at the grand altar of the DIY superstore.
Rod Maxwell, Scotland

Regardless of personal faith, it is important to keep one day special for families to spend time together.
Matthew Hunter, UK

The past one hundred years have seen a dramatic secularisation throughout the world. As for those in my household, Sunday is a time to focus on the spiritual side of life. However, what society wants, society will do. Inevitably, it will also reap the consequences.
Jonathan A Stapley, USA/France

Lots of people think being able to shop on a Sunday is great . . . until they get forced to work behind the counter on a Sunday. Keep Sunday special!
Rob Whittaker, UK

No way! There's no logic to the 'keep Sunday special' campaign. It's just a vain attempt by religious groups to retain a measure of control over people by taking away their personal freedom. If anything, most peoples' Sundays are BUSIER than other days of the week as they have to cram in all the DIY, shopping, 'quality time' etc into the same day as everybody else. If you want to relax, you're better off keeping Tuesday special; that way you can get some peace while everyone else is at work, and if you do need to buy anything, the shops are still open after 4pm (one of the most annoying aspects of Sundays in the UK!)
David Evans, UK

Since not everybody is Christian, or even subscribes to a religion at all, it is an infringement upon one's personal liberty to impose rules about what one can or cannot do on Sunday.
Alan Bobroff, UK

If Sundays are not special, then the noise and clutter of the rest of the week continues unabated.
Tony Bellows, Jersey CI

Keeping the Sabbath holy is one of the 10 commandments. They apply now as much as they did then. The God that commanded them is the same yesterday, today and forever. God is our Creator and we should honour him because he has our lives in the palm of his hand.
W Morrison, Scotland

A free Sunday is far too precious to be surrendered to either God or Mammon. It should be kept free of heavenly or earthly interruption, allowing the undisturbed appreciation of the Archers and EastEnders omnibus editions.
David Sansom, UK

That is above and beyond, I agree. It will not fly over here and I would bet the farm that Europe will trash the notion as well. No, I am not worried in the least.

Peregrine(Endangered) wrote:A faith of convenience is a hollow faith. ~M*A*S*H, Father Mulcahy, "A Holy Mess," 1982

That's a good quote.

I lean more to the Christian than the secular in life but I refuse to be like the religious where they believe it is their duty to impose a belief system onto others against their wills. God doesn't work that way. If He did, we wouldn't be here right now. A secular government such as the US, should always ensure separation of Church & State so we are spared religious persecution which occurred in Europe centuries ago. Much blood flowed in the streets to preserve the right to worship in peace and without the Vatican imposing its dogma onto others.

HotParadox wrote:That is above and beyond, I agree. It will not fly over here and I would bet the farm that Europe will trash the notion as well. No, I am not worried in the least.

I hope so too HP, I really do.

It would contravene the EU human rights bill anyways.

I think that's the first positive thing I've ever said about that bill......yup...

European bishops back proposed EU law on Sunday rest

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=15107#comments

Brussels, Belgium, Feb 16, 2009 / 07:23 pm (CNA).- The secretariat of the Commission of the Bishops' Conferences of the European Community has welcomed a proposed EU law that would safeguard Sunday as a day of rest from work.

According to L’Osservatore Romano, the secretariat issued a statement praising the measure proposed by five EU parliamentarians to recognize the value of “Sunday rest as part of the ‘cultural patrimony’ and ‘European social model’.”

“The current economic and financial crisis has made it even more evident that not every aspect of human life can be subject to the laws of the market,” the bishops stressed.

“In fact, consumerism is not a model either for a sustainable economy or for healthy human development.” Sunday work, they continued, “puts those who work on Sunday into a socially disadvantageous position, affecting everything from family life to their own personal health.”

The proposed measure, which would need 394 votes to pass in the EU parliament, would call on member states and EU institutions to “protect Sunday as the weekly day of rest” in order “to improve the protection of workers’ health and the balancing of work and family life.”

Comments:

Published by: Eugen
München 23/02/2009 09:05 AM EST
There is a main problem in acting like this!Every Church and state working together brought only persecution in history.A day or way of rest is not a problem of the parlament and of votes.Every problem should be solved by its own department.The Church should be able to solve without the parlament the problem of rest without the state, and reverse.USA is the best example of an institution which had its foundation in the separation of church and state.Will this principle dissappear religious freedom will be also lost.we have also the example in Europe in the middle age.Was it really possible to have religious freedom for the most of the time?


continued...

HotParadox wrote:That is above and beyond, I agree. It will not fly over here and I would bet the farm that Europe will trash the notion as well. No, I am not worried in the least.

I have no clue about Europe. But can you even imagine them trying to pass a law saying walmart, Food Lion, Kroger, and all other businesses have to close on Sunday because it's the Sabbath here in the states? Imagine them trying to tell people they can't make a dollar on Sunday. Or even worse, trying to pass a law saying the businesses have to close and people can't buy some hamburger when they suddenly decide on Sunday to throw some burgers on the grill. They'll need God to protect them from the violence that ensues when Joe six pack can't get his 12-pack and smokes on Sunday! That aint gonna happen. I don't care how much power people think the pope has. There will be some blood shed over that one.

Published by: Vicki
Danville,IL USA 22/02/2009 03:46 PM EST
Mr. Rob, Catholicism has no Chrsitian heritage for they are not Christian. They set aside the word of God for their own made up traditions and dogmas.


Published by: Charity
Nigeria 21/02/2009 12:48 PM EST
God blessed the 7th day sabbath, sanctified it and rested on it, so enforcing a law on any other day is contrary to the word of God. God never made Sunday holy, it is just like any other day. Remember, we have to obey God rather than man.


Published by: dennis
French Camp, California USA 19/02/2009 11:33 PM EST
The 7th Day sabbath is the only one autorized by God. Sunday is pagan and Vatican mark of the beast. When governments pass religious laws to make the Vatican happy, remember the inquisitions.


Published by: Rob
NY 19/02/2009 11:52 AM EST
Historically, Europe is Catholic. If they seek to preserve their Christian heritage who are you to tell them they may not? In the name of tolerance many who claim to be tolerant and open minded are the most hypocritical and intolerent. So in the face of those who are trying to preserve the traditional day of rest all the previous commenters are saying that they may not choose a day of rest since it may offend someone. According to that idea no one may choose a day of rest (even personally) since it may offend someone. True tolerance states that yes there are differences between people and so long as those differences are not harmful to others and society they are permitted. However, in the name of multiculturism all legitimate diversity is wiped out. Now that is is more than paradoxical- it is contradictory. It is also strange for those who say it is wrong for the majority to decide upon this issue to give the power to the minority to do it. How is that equitable?


Published by: Crocket
Conowingo/md/usa 18/02/2009 08:55 AM EST
Rate: Excellent
There is great danger whenever we by law enforce religious preferences. Sunday or Saturday or Friday rest days are religious preferences, according to ones individual beliefs. To suggest that the state, via majority affirmation can dictate matters of belief will follow down the track that led to state-controlled environments, however well intentioned those desires may be.


Published by: Joker
NY NY USA 17/02/2009 05:27 PM EST
If some people of "different faiths" want to stick to their Sabbath then they will get two days of rest. lucky for them.


Published by: Jokes
Webster/NY/USA 16/02/2009 10:44 PM EST
Rate: Very Good
What about persons of other faiths that have different Sabbaths or days of rest? Won't this put them at an economic disadvantage if they want to rest on their Sabbath and are forced to rest on the Christian Sabbath?
In an age of diversity and multiculturalism, isn't this a bit paradoxical.

Sir Bonvolio wrote:It would contravene the EU human rights bill anyways.

I think that's the first positive thing I've ever said about that bill......yup...

That's why the introductory part of the Sunday observance is covered with a "Worker's Protection" wrapper. They're trying to say that our health is being compromised if we work on Sundays. Everyone does need at least one day off from work so we don't get burnt out, but I disagree with the fact they are pushing their 'Lord's Day" as the only day fit to take off from work.

See how they work though? Their good intentions are easily seen as religious semantics designed to have their agenda scribed into law. And the worst part is they won't quit until they succeed. If not now, they will wait until more people have forgotten how religious liberty and freedoms in general were obtained. Much innocent blood has been shed since the 16th century just so you and I have the freedom to refrain from attending Mass or be able to shop or smoke on Sunday.

CarolinaHound wrote:

HotParadox wrote:That is above and beyond, I agree. It will not fly over here and I would bet the farm that Europe will trash the notion as well. No, I am not worried in the least.

I have no clue about Europe. But can you even imagine them trying to pass a law saying walmart, Food Lion, Kroger, and all other businesses have to close on Sunday because it's the Sabbath here in the states? Imagine them trying to tell people they can't make a dollar on Sunday. Or even worse, trying to pass a law saying the businesses have to close and people can't buy some hamburger when they suddenly decide on Sunday to throw some burgers on the grill. They'll need God to protect them from the violence that ensues when Joe six pack can't get his 12-pack and smokes on Sunday! That aint gonna happen. I don't care how much power people think the pope has. There will be some blood shed over that one.

A friend of mine received an email from a friend whom had a discussion with a Catholic Priest in Anchorage, Alaska. The Priest told him the Vatican isn't concerned about resistance from the US because they are already bankrupt and will be easy to push such laws through. Also remember how many Catholics are in America (76.2 million), the Evangelicals (pop. ?) and the Fundamentalists (pop. ?) All observe Sunday and I wager most will be looking to bring "God" back into the schools and try to reverse what "liberalism" and its destruction has done to America.

Never underestimate the zealots. Give them an inch and they'll take a hundred miles.

And what will those in Europe or anywhere for that matter do if it becomes illegal to work on sunday. Just think. NO doctors, nurses, hospital stall at all, firemen, police, military and that has to include all of the clergy as they do work on sunday as well don't they. So if nobody can work on sunday does the whole world just come to a stand still, I don't think so.

I would be willing to bet that every crook in the world will only work on Sunday then.

Aint never gonna happen. But if it would and the religious cops come knocking on my door cause I aint going to go to any church, well then let the body count begin.

Americanadian wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:It would contravene the EU human rights bill anyways.

I think that's the first positive thing I've ever said about that bill......yup...

That's why the introductory part of the Sunday observance is covered with a "Worker's Protection" wrapper. They're trying to say that our health is being compromised if we work on Sundays. Everyone does need at least one day off from work so we don't get burnt out, but I disagree with the fact they are pushing their 'Lord's Day" as the only day fit to take off from work.

See how they work though? Their good intentions are easily seen as religious semantics designed to have their agenda scribed into law. And the worst part is they won't quit until they succeed. If not now, they will wait until more people have forgotten how religious liberty and freedoms in general were obtained. Much innocent blood has been shed since the 16th century just so you and I have the freedom to refrain from attending Mass or be able to shop or smoke on Sunday.

But there is already alot about working hours and workers rights already in EU statute. How can they put through another, essentially, superflous piece of legislature?

Old Timer wrote:And what will those in Europe or anywhere for that matter do if it becomes illegal to work on sunday. Just think. NO doctors, nurses, hospital stall at all, firemen, police, military and that has to include all of the clergy as they do work on sunday as well don't they. So if nobody can work on sunday does the whole world just come to a stand still, I don't think so.

I would be willing to bet that every crook in the world will only work on Sunday then.

Aint never gonna happen. But if it would and the religious cops come knocking on my door cause I aint going to go to any church, well then let the body count begin.

I concur. Find me in the mountains with the rest of the degerates and guns.

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Americanadian wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:It would contravene the EU human rights bill anyways.

I think that's the first positive thing I've ever said about that bill......yup...

That's why the introductory part of the Sunday observance is covered with a "Worker's Protection" wrapper. They're trying to say that our health is being compromised if we work on Sundays. Everyone does need at least one day off from work so we don't get burnt out, but I disagree with the fact they are pushing their 'Lord's Day" as the only day fit to take off from work.

See how they work though? Their good intentions are easily seen as religious semantics designed to have their agenda scribed into law. And the worst part is they won't quit until they succeed. If not now, they will wait until more people have forgotten how religious liberty and freedoms in general were obtained. Much innocent blood has been shed since the 16th century just so you and I have the freedom to refrain from attending Mass or be able to shop or smoke on Sunday.

But there is already alot about working hours and workers rights already in EU statute. How can they put through another, essentially, superflous piece of legislature?

Actually, coming from what I've seen with statutes in the US.... You'd be amazed.

CarolinaHound wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Americanadian wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:It would contravene the EU human rights bill anyways.

I think that's the first positive thing I've ever said about that bill......yup...

That's why the introductory part of the Sunday observance is covered with a "Worker's Protection" wrapper. They're trying to say that our health is being compromised if we work on Sundays. Everyone does need at least one day off from work so we don't get burnt out, but I disagree with the fact they are pushing their 'Lord's Day" as the only day fit to take off from work.

See how they work though? Their good intentions are easily seen as religious semantics designed to have their agenda scribed into law. And the worst part is they won't quit until they succeed. If not now, they will wait until more people have forgotten how religious liberty and freedoms in general were obtained. Much innocent blood has been shed since the 16th century just so you and I have the freedom to refrain from attending Mass or be able to shop or smoke on Sunday.

But there is already alot about working hours and workers rights already in EU statute. How can they put through another, essentially, superflous piece of legislature?

Actually, coming from what I've seen with statutes in the US.... You'd be amazed.

Touché.

At one time, actually can't remember, but I believe it was in the fifties... there was no working(no stores) on Sunday period. I believe it was called "Blue Laws" but it was obolished but then again I don't know when...

Back in the day, literally nothing would open here on a Sunday.

Now everything is open Sunday, and why not?

It is just another day of the week.

If someone doesn't want to do anything on Sunday's, as it is part of their faith, then that is fine, don't do anything. But no employer should have to make a special case, for example.

If that employee was on a rota, then he would have to take his turn at Sunday, along with everyone else.

Cartoon Head wrote:

Anti-Thesisofreason wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:
HP mentions the word cult, and to be honest, what is the difference between a cult and a religion, as in my eyes the difference is often not visible.

Here is an interesting cult evalutation questionare that will evaluate your current or future religion to see if they have cultic tendencies.
The reference is from a Neo-Pagan site an apology to those who may be offended by such things.
I think if one were to look at Dianetics it would come very close if not be labeled as a cult according to this form.

http://www.neopagan.net/ABCDEF.html

Thanks for the link.

I shall have a look later.

I stand by what I say though.

There is no difference between a cult and a religion, other than that the latter usually has a greater audience.

Of course, I have heard Christians disrespect those who trust the book of Mormon to be true, and do so without blinking.

Such hypocrisy.

How dare they get all bent out of shape if anyone challenges or has a joke about their religion, while all the time, they do the same about others.

At least I say they all have equal merits - eg; none.

I think in the case of this questionare cult is used in terms of harm that is caused by the leaders of said cult toward the followers. Not to say that plenty of harm has not been done by Christianity and other religions in the past and in some cases the present. But I think in this case cult is used as a definition of how followers are controlled by the governing body.

Peregrine(Endangered) wrote:At one time, actually can't remember, but I believe it was in the fifties... there was no working(no stores) on Sunday period. I believe it was called "Blue Laws" but it was obolished but then again I don't know when...

Well I remember in the 70's not much of anything being open on sundays so I think allowing things being open on sundays was a late 70's thing.

Sir Bonvolio wrote:
But there is already alot about working hours and workers rights already in EU statute. How can they put through another, essentially, superflous piece of legislature?

It's just a subterfuge to get their dogma written into law. I don't believe them simply because the Pope declares "We can't live without Sunday" and a few years later, they're trying to convince other people that Sunday is the only day which would be best to rest on. I mean, LOL...yeah sure buddy!

Cartoon Head wrote:Back in the day, literally nothing would open here on a Sunday.

Now everything is open Sunday, and why not?

It is just another day of the week.

If someone doesn't want to do anything on Sunday's, as it is part of their faith, then that is fine, don't do anything. But no employer should have to make a special case, for example.

If that employee was on a rota, then he would have to take his turn at Sunday, along with everyone else.

Exactly. In fact, I find it absurd for the Pope to suggest Sunday as the only day to take off for resting purposes. I don't see the Jews trying to force everyone to refrain from working from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday.

Keep everything as it is and let people be. Let atheists continue as they wish and let other religions worship as they wish.

I remember around here when i was real young they would let grocery stores open after 1 pm, but you could only buy food. No non-food items and no beer or wine. I remember once riding with my brother one Sarurday night to get some beer before the store closed. People had buggy loads of alcohol. Only difference that law made was folks had to stock up on Saturday night.

Americanadian wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:Back in the day, literally nothing would open here on a Sunday.

Now everything is open Sunday, and why not?

It is just another day of the week.

If someone doesn't want to do anything on Sunday's, as it is part of their faith, then that is fine, don't do anything. But no employer should have to make a special case, for example.

If that employee was on a rota, then he would have to take his turn at Sunday, along with everyone else.

Exactly. In fact, I find it absurd for the Pope to suggest Sunday as the only day to take off for resting purposes. I don't see the Jews trying to force everyone to refrain from working from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday.

Keep everything as it is and let people be. Let atheists continue as they wish and let other religions worship as they wish.

Andre, here in the UK, there is a distinct difference between Christians and those in the US.

I have noticed this, it is v clear.

There are v few British Christians who, for example, take that which is written in the bible in a literal sense, but I sense that in the US there is more of an inclination for people to read it as a book of undisputed fact - which is most certainly is not.

Perhaps it is because we are an older country, after all, we have gone through our era's of religous fervour in the past?

Perhaps we have now passed that phase, perhaps in the US, this all singing all dancing religousity, which often contains elements of neo con politics, will also hit a glass ceiling?

Cartoon Head wrote:Back in the day, literally nothing would open here on a Sunday.

Now everything is open Sunday, and why not?

It is just another day of the week.

If someone doesn't want to do anything on Sunday's, as it is part of their faith, then that is fine, don't do anything. But no employer should have to make a special case, for example.

If that employee was on a rota, then he would have to take his turn at Sunday, along with everyone else.

Surely that is intolerant to other peoples beliefs?

The two Christians that I have working for me that never work Sundays, I, and the rest of my staff have absolutly no qualms about this...

Same as another of my staff goes out on a Thursday so is unavailable for those shits.

Surely people are allowed to do what they want?

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:Back in the day, literally nothing would open here on a Sunday.

Now everything is open Sunday, and why not?

It is just another day of the week.

If someone doesn't want to do anything on Sunday's, as it is part of their faith, then that is fine, don't do anything. But no employer should have to make a special case, for example.

If that employee was on a rota, then he would have to take his turn at Sunday, along with everyone else.

Surely that is intolerant to other peoples beliefs?

The two Christians that I have working for me that never work Sundays, I, and the rest of my staff have absolutly no qualms about this...

Same as another of my staff goes out on a Thursday so is unavailable for those shits.

Surely people are allowed to do what they want?

Yes, they can do what they want, I have already conceded that. So long as it is not on the time of their employer. Why should an exception be made for them? That is an absolute bias?

Equally, if employers are implored to accept that, then so too must they accept other requests, that may come from any other religion, no matter how small. Otherwise that would be a bias also.

Pretty soon we would have employers running around, pandering to all these individual demands, and forgetting what they are there to do - make a profit, remain in business. Problem solved, no more need to work a Sunday.

Therefore, in order that business run smoothly, we should not engage in such practice at all.

That is the fairest thing.

since you mention the I word, let me ask you this - Is there anything more intolerant than a concept that declares - beleive this or burn for all time .... but you have 'free will'...

A hollow threat to me, since I do not believe in gods, satans, demons, goblins, heaven or valhallah.

But even an empty threat is not a nice thing.

God, it seems, is more interested in your unswerving and unquestioned obediance, than he is recognising good acts.

How does that sound to you, as a concept?

Cartoon Head wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:Back in the day, literally nothing would open here on a Sunday.

Now everything is open Sunday, and why not?

It is just another day of the week.

If someone doesn't want to do anything on Sunday's, as it is part of their faith, then that is fine, don't do anything. But no employer should have to make a special case, for example.

If that employee was on a rota, then he would have to take his turn at Sunday, along with everyone else.

Surely that is intolerant to other peoples beliefs?

The two Christians that I have working for me that never work Sundays, I, and the rest of my staff have absolutly no qualms about this...

Same as another of my staff goes out on a Thursday so is unavailable for those shits.

Surely people are allowed to do what they want?

Yes, they can do what they want, I have already conceded that. So long as it is not on the time of their employer. Why should an exception be made for them? That is an absolute bias?

Equally, if employers are implored to accept that, then so too must they accept other requests, that may come from any other religion, no matter how small. Otherwise that would be a bias also.

Pretty soon we would have employers running around, pandering to all these individual demands, and forgetting what they are there to do - make a profit, remain in business. Problem solved, no more need to work a Sunday.

Therefore, in order that business run smoothly, we should not engage in such practice at all.

That is the fairest thing.

Investing time and helping your employees out is well known to increase their job satisfaction, work rate, commitment, etc. So I don't think that allowing them to have time off for their religion, night out with their mates, etc. is bad thing at all.

Also, I fear you are twisting some of the messages in the bible to tailor your own arguments.

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:Back in the day, literally nothing would open here on a Sunday.

Now everything is open Sunday, and why not?

It is just another day of the week.

If someone doesn't want to do anything on Sunday's, as it is part of their faith, then that is fine, don't do anything. But no employer should have to make a special case, for example.

If that employee was on a rota, then he would have to take his turn at Sunday, along with everyone else.

Surely that is intolerant to other peoples beliefs?

The two Christians that I have working for me that never work Sundays, I, and the rest of my staff have absolutly no qualms about this...

Same as another of my staff goes out on a Thursday so is unavailable for those shits.

Surely people are allowed to do what they want?

Yes, they can do what they want, I have already conceded that. So long as it is not on the time of their employer. Why should an exception be made for them? That is an absolute bias?

Equally, if employers are implored to accept that, then so too must they accept other requests, that may come from any other religion, no matter how small. Otherwise that would be a bias also.

Pretty soon we would have employers running around, pandering to all these individual demands, and forgetting what they are there to do - make a profit, remain in business. Problem solved, no more need to work a Sunday.

Therefore, in order that business run smoothly, we should not engage in such practice at all.

That is the fairest thing.

Investing time and helping your employees out is well known to increase their job satisfaction, work rate, commitment, etc. So I don't think that allowing them to have time off for their religion, night out with their mates, etc. is bad thing at all.

Also, I fear you are twisting some of the messages in the bible to tailor your own arguments.

No? Steve? Certainly not?

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:Back in the day, literally nothing would open here on a Sunday.

Now everything is open Sunday, and why not?

It is just another day of the week.

If someone doesn't want to do anything on Sunday's, as it is part of their faith, then that is fine, don't do anything. But no employer should have to make a special case, for example.

If that employee was on a rota, then he would have to take his turn at Sunday, along with everyone else.

Surely that is intolerant to other peoples beliefs?

The two Christians that I have working for me that never work Sundays, I, and the rest of my staff have absolutly no qualms about this...

Same as another of my staff goes out on a Thursday so is unavailable for those shits.

Surely people are allowed to do what they want?

Yes, they can do what they want, I have already conceded that. So long as it is not on the time of their employer. Why should an exception be made for them? That is an absolute bias?

Equally, if employers are implored to accept that, then so too must they accept other requests, that may come from any other religion, no matter how small. Otherwise that would be a bias also.

Pretty soon we would have employers running around, pandering to all these individual demands, and forgetting what they are there to do - make a profit, remain in business. Problem solved, no more need to work a Sunday.

Therefore, in order that business run smoothly, we should not engage in such practice at all.

That is the fairest thing.

Investing time and helping your employees out is well known to increase their job satisfaction, work rate, commitment, etc. So I don't think that allowing them to have time off for their religion, night out with their mates, etc. is bad thing at all.

Also, I fear you are twisting some of the messages in the bible to tailor your own arguments.

Huh?

I am not doing anything of the sort.

I am saying that if I had a company, and there were employees there who had to take it in turns to do a given day, then I would expect everyone to pitch in.

Otherwise, where do you want to take this?

If you had employees whose faith determined that they take two weeks off a month, would you be happy with that?

If you had employees who took time off to celebrate Apollo or Zeus, would you be happy with that?

Well, even if you were, alas, you would not be in business long, as you would have no staff!

CarolinaHound wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:Back in the day, literally nothing would open here on a Sunday.

Now everything is open Sunday, and why not?

It is just another day of the week.

If someone doesn't want to do anything on Sunday's, as it is part of their faith, then that is fine, don't do anything. But no employer should have to make a special case, for example.

If that employee was on a rota, then he would have to take his turn at Sunday, along with everyone else.

Surely that is intolerant to other peoples beliefs?

The two Christians that I have working for me that never work Sundays, I, and the rest of my staff have absolutly no qualms about this...

Same as another of my staff goes out on a Thursday so is unavailable for those shits.

Surely people are allowed to do what they want?

Yes, they can do what they want, I have already conceded that. So long as it is not on the time of their employer. Why should an exception be made for them? That is an absolute bias?

Equally, if employers are implored to accept that, then so too must they accept other requests, that may come from any other religion, no matter how small. Otherwise that would be a bias also.

Pretty soon we would have employers running around, pandering to all these individual demands, and forgetting what they are there to do - make a profit, remain in business. Problem solved, no more need to work a Sunday.

Therefore, in order that business run smoothly, we should not engage in such practice at all.

That is the fairest thing.

Investing time and helping your employees out is well known to increase their job satisfaction, work rate, commitment, etc. So I don't think that allowing them to have time off for their religion, night out with their mates, etc. is bad thing at all.

Also, I fear you are twisting some of the messages in the bible to tailor your own arguments.

No? Steve? Certainly not?

Hmm...

This coming from the fella who during the Dawkins footage, chose to put up a link to some that proved to be a fake. Others sucked that one up.

Cartoon Head wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:Back in the day, literally nothing would open here on a Sunday.

Now everything is open Sunday, and why not?

It is just another day of the week.

If someone doesn't want to do anything on Sunday's, as it is part of their faith, then that is fine, don't do anything. But no employer should have to make a special case, for example.

If that employee was on a rota, then he would have to take his turn at Sunday, along with everyone else.

Surely that is intolerant to other peoples beliefs?

The two Christians that I have working for me that never work Sundays, I, and the rest of my staff have absolutly no qualms about this...

Same as another of my staff goes out on a Thursday so is unavailable for those shits.

Surely people are allowed to do what they want?

Yes, they can do what they want, I have already conceded that. So long as it is not on the time of their employer. Why should an exception be made for them? That is an absolute bias?

Equally, if employers are implored to accept that, then so too must they accept other requests, that may come from any other religion, no matter how small. Otherwise that would be a bias also.

Pretty soon we would have employers running around, pandering to all these individual demands, and forgetting what they are there to do - make a profit, remain in business. Problem solved, no more need to work a Sunday.

Therefore, in order that business run smoothly, we should not engage in such practice at all.

That is the fairest thing.

Investing time and helping your employees out is well known to increase their job satisfaction, work rate, commitment, etc. So I don't think that allowing them to have time off for their religion, night out with their mates, etc. is bad thing at all.

Also, I fear you are twisting some of the messages in the bible to tailor your own arguments.

Huh?

I am not doing anything of the sort.

I am saying that if I had a company, and there were employees there who had to take it in turns to do a given day, then I would expect everyone to pitch in.

Otherwise, where do you want to take this?

If you had employees whose faith determined that they take two weeks off a month, would you be happy with that?

If you had employees who took time off to celebrate Apollo or Zeus, would you be happy with that?

Well, even if you were, alas, you would not be in business long, as you would have no staff!

That would be riduculous. If a staff member of mine makes a reasonable request, then of course I'd allow them to do it, I don't really give a toss what it's for. I respect peoples ideologies and lives outside of the workplace, i.e. why I allow the other one to have thursday nights off to socialise. One and the same thing.

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:Back in the day, literally nothing would open here on a Sunday.

Now everything is open Sunday, and why not?

It is just another day of the week.

If someone doesn't want to do anything on Sunday's, as it is part of their faith, then that is fine, don't do anything. But no employer should have to make a special case, for example.

If that employee was on a rota, then he would have to take his turn at Sunday, along with everyone else.

Surely that is intolerant to other peoples beliefs?

The two Christians that I have working for me that never work Sundays, I, and the rest of my staff have absolutly no qualms about this...

Same as another of my staff goes out on a Thursday so is unavailable for those shits.

Surely people are allowed to do what they want?

Yes, they can do what they want, I have already conceded that. So long as it is not on the time of their employer. Why should an exception be made for them? That is an absolute bias?

Equally, if employers are implored to accept that, then so too must they accept other requests, that may come from any other religion, no matter how small. Otherwise that would be a bias also.

Pretty soon we would have employers running around, pandering to all these individual demands, and forgetting what they are there to do - make a profit, remain in business. Problem solved, no more need to work a Sunday.

Therefore, in order that business run smoothly, we should not engage in such practice at all.

That is the fairest thing.

Investing time and helping your employees out is well known to increase their job satisfaction, work rate, commitment, etc. So I don't think that allowing them to have time off for their religion, night out with their mates, etc. is bad thing at all.

Also, I fear you are twisting some of the messages in the bible to tailor your own arguments.

Huh?

I am not doing anything of the sort.

I am saying that if I had a company, and there were employees there who had to take it in turns to do a given day, then I would expect everyone to pitch in.

Otherwise, where do you want to take this?

If you had employees whose faith determined that they take two weeks off a month, would you be happy with that?

If you had employees who took time off to celebrate Apollo or Zeus, would you be happy with that?

Well, even if you were, alas, you would not be in business long, as you would have no staff!

That would be riduculous. If a staff member of mine makes a reasonable request, then of course I'd allow them to do it, I don't really give a toss what it's for. I respect peoples ideologies and lives outside of the workplace, i.e. why I allow the other one to have thursday nights off to socialise. One and the same thing.

So.

Would you pander to the request of a pagan, someone that believed in Zeus, Apollo, etc?

Imo, either you have to accomodate all or none.

Are you saying you would choose some over others?

Isn't that biased?

Cartoon Head wrote:

CarolinaHound wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:

Sir Bonvolio wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:Back in the day, literally nothing would open here on a Sunday.

Now everything is open Sunday, and why not?

It is just another day of the week.

If someone doesn't want to do anything on Sunday's, as it is part of their faith, then that is fine, don't do anything. But no employer should have to make a special case, for example.

If that employee was on a rota, then he would have to take his turn at Sunday, along with everyone else.

Surely that is intolerant to other peoples beliefs?

The two Christians that I have working for me that never work Sundays, I, and the rest of my staff have absolutly no qualms about this...

Same as another of my staff goes out on a Thursday so is unavailable for those shits.

Surely people are allowed to do what they want?

Yes, they can do what they want, I have already conceded that. So long as it is not on the time of their employer. Why should an exception be made for them? That is an absolute bias?

Equally, if employers are implored to accept that, then so too must they accept other requests, that may come from any other religion, no matter how small. Otherwise that would be a bias also.

Pretty soon we would have employers running around, pandering to all these individual demands, and forgetting what they are there to do - make a profit, remain in business. Problem solved, no more need to work a Sunday.

Therefore, in order that business run smoothly, we should not engage in such practice at all.

That is the fairest thing.

Investing time and helping your employees out is well known to increase their job satisfaction, work rate, commitment, etc. So I don't think that allowing them to have time off for their religion, night out with their mates, etc. is bad thing at all.

Also, I fear you are twisting some of the messages in the bible to tailor your own arguments.

No? Steve? Certainly not?

Hmm...

This coming from the fella who during the Dawkins footage, chose to put up a link to some that proved to be a fake. Others sucked that one up.

I missed something... who proved it to be a fake? The man got stumped is all.