Brown Blasts

UK condemns attack on UN Gaza HQ
42 mins ago

Prime Minister Gordon Brown condemned Israel's shelling of the United Nations HQ in Gaza as "indefensible".



The UN building was set alight by the bombardment as its Secretary General, Ban Ki-moon, visited the area on a mission to secure a ceasefire.

The Prime Minister assured Mr Ban, in a phone conversation following the incident, that Britain would "step up" its efforts for an immediate ceasefire.

And he said that British humanitarian aid would go into Gaza "immediately there is a ceasefire".

Speaking in 10 Downing Street shortly after talking to Mr Ban, Mr Brown described the UN chief as "properly angry" about the attack.

The Prime Minister said: "When the United Nations is doing such vital work - humanitarian work amongst women and children in Gaza - no-one can defend this attack by Israeli forces on the compound.

"The Israelis have now admitted it is a serious mistake. I have said to Ban Ki-moon this afternoon we will step up our efforts for an immediate ceasefire.

"I believe that the proposals that we and others have put to the Israelis and the Palestinians are proposals - about the crossings, about arms trafficking and about proper monitoring - that can be accepted.

"We have said that we will provide British - and other countries, France and Germany, have said that they will provide European - support for these things to happen.

"I hope these events will convince everybody that an immediate ceasefire is absolutely essential."



http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090115/tuk-uk-condemns-attack-on-un-gaza-hq-6323e80.html

A 'mistake'????

Lol, are there any depths to which Israel shall not stoop?

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:UK condemns attack on UN Gaza HQ
42 mins ago

Prime Minister Gordon Brown condemned Israel's shelling of the United Nations HQ in Gaza as "indefensible".



The UN building was set alight by the bombardment as its Secretary General, Ban Ki-moon, visited the area on a mission to secure a ceasefire.

The Prime Minister assured Mr Ban, in a phone conversation following the incident, that Britain would "step up" its efforts for an immediate ceasefire.

And he said that British humanitarian aid would go into Gaza "immediately there is a ceasefire".

Speaking in 10 Downing Street shortly after talking to Mr Ban, Mr Brown described the UN chief as "properly angry" about the attack.

The Prime Minister said: "When the United Nations is doing such vital work - humanitarian work amongst women and children in Gaza - no-one can defend this attack by Israeli forces on the compound.

"The Israelis have now admitted it is a serious mistake. I have said to Ban Ki-moon this afternoon we will step up our efforts for an immediate ceasefire.

"I believe that the proposals that we and others have put to the Israelis and the Palestinians are proposals - about the crossings, about arms trafficking and about proper monitoring - that can be accepted.

"We have said that we will provide British - and other countries, France and Germany, have said that they will provide European - support for these things to happen.

"I hope these events will convince everybody that an immediate ceasefire is absolutely essential."



http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090115/tuk-uk-condemns-attack-on-un-gaza-hq-6323e80.html

A 'mistake'????

Lol, are there any depths to which Israel shall not stoop?

Hope you don't mind but I get the impression by your posts that you support the Hamas in their quest for the end of Israel.
If that's the case, how do you feel about their quest for Islam to rule the world?

Please don't take offence. I don't mean it personally. It just seems that every post you make is in support of Hamas.

Truth?

I don't give a stuff about Hamas.

They could go get stuffed, for all I care.

What I do care about are a young and defenceless people being killed en masse, by a larger and better equipped nation.

I don't think that makes me a supporter of 'Hamas'.

I think it makes me a supporter of that which is right.

And no offence taken, of course.

The only thing that I can say is that those people have been killing each other for what, 2 or so thousand years now? Just what makes anyone think that they can change that and make them stop. If they are not going to fight about land it will be something else. If it is not those they fight now it will be another country. I will be willing to bet a shinny nickle that in 50 to 100 years from now they will still be killing each other for one reason or another. Any takers??

Old Timer wrote:The only thing that I can say is that those people have been killing each other for what, 2 or so thousand years now?

Actually much less.

About sixty years.

Prior to that, Jews and Muslims, as well as others, lived together in comparitive harmony.

It is one of those oft put around myths that this level of unrest has been ongoing for so long.

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Truth?

I don't give a stuff about Hamas.

They could go get stuffed, for all I care.

What I do care about are a young and defenceless people being killed en masse, by a larger and better equipped nation.

I don't think that makes me a supporter of 'Hamas'.

I think it makes me a supporter of that which is right.

And no offence taken, of course.

I feel the same way about the civilains suffering and dying, too, but I do place a lot of the responsibility on Hamas, particularly in the way they fight (if you can believe the reports coming out) and their policies towards Israel.

I'm certainly not backing the Israeli government. The best thing the Israeli people could do would be to abandon their government and call on Hamas (and others) to sit down and re-draw the maps into sovereign countries instead of states. I fear that will never happen because the Israeli people believe that Hamas wants to eradicate all Jews when , in fact, they just want to see and end of the Zionist regime and their quest to take Arab more land. Thats' the way I see it, anyway. It's hard to know all of the whys and where-fors when so much bulshit is being spread around, by both sides.

It would be great if the Hamas Leaders and Zionist Jews found a few square miles in the desert and went at it for a few days with nothing more than sticks to fight with. The way things are going, that's all any of will have in a few years.

catch - 22 wrote:

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Truth?

I don't give a stuff about Hamas.

They could go get stuffed, for all I care.

What I do care about are a young and defenceless people being killed en masse, by a larger and better equipped nation.

I don't think that makes me a supporter of 'Hamas'.

I think it makes me a supporter of that which is right.

And no offence taken, of course.

I feel the same way about the civilains suffering and dying, too, but I do place a lot of the responsibility on Hamas, particularly in the way they fight (if you can believe the reports coming out) and their policies towards Israel.

I'm certainly not backing the Israeli government. The best thing the Israeli people could do would be to abandon their government and call on Hamas (and others) to sit down and re-draw the maps into sovereign countries instead of states. I fear that will never happen because the Israeli people believe that Hamas wants to eradicate all Jews when , in fact, they just want to see and end of the Zionist regime and their quest to take Arab more land. Thats' the way I see it, anyway. It's hard to know all of the whys and where-fors when so much bulshit is being spread around, by both sides.

It would be great if the Hamas Leaders and Zionist Jews found a few square miles in the desert and went at it for a few days with nothing more than sticks to fight with. The way things are going, that's all any of will have in a few years.

Perhaps.

It is up to the rest of the world powers to have the will to go and sort it out, for real.

They could do it, if they so wanted, and without dropping one bomb.

If an alliance of the US, Russia, China, and the EU went to Israel, asked them to go back to their original borders, then even Israel would have to comply, the people of Palestine would feel a sense of fairness, and some sanity would be restored.

How about that?

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:

catch - 22 wrote:

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Truth?

I don't give a stuff about Hamas.

They could go get stuffed, for all I care.

What I do care about are a young and defenceless people being killed en masse, by a larger and better equipped nation.

I don't think that makes me a supporter of 'Hamas'.

I think it makes me a supporter of that which is right.

And no offence taken, of course.

I feel the same way about the civilains suffering and dying, too, but I do place a lot of the responsibility on Hamas, particularly in the way they fight (if you can believe the reports coming out) and their policies towards Israel.

I'm certainly not backing the Israeli government. The best thing the Israeli people could do would be to abandon their government and call on Hamas (and others) to sit down and re-draw the maps into sovereign countries instead of states. I fear that will never happen because the Israeli people believe that Hamas wants to eradicate all Jews when , in fact, they just want to see and end of the Zionist regime and their quest to take Arab more land. Thats' the way I see it, anyway. It's hard to know all of the whys and where-fors when so much bulshit is being spread around, by both sides.

It would be great if the Hamas Leaders and Zionist Jews found a few square miles in the desert and went at it for a few days with nothing more than sticks to fight with. The way things are going, that's all any of will have in a few years.

Perhaps.

It is up to the rest of the world powers to have the will to go and sort it out, for real.

They could do it, if they so wanted, and without dropping one bomb.

If an alliance of the US, Russia, China, and the EU went to Israel, asked them to go back to their original borders, then even Israel would have to comply, the people of Palestine would feel a sense of fairness, and some sanity would be restored.

How about that?

Especially if you included the immediate neighbours Syria, Jordan, Egypt etc. and even Iran in the process.

And if they are going to go that road, why not give them the staus of countries rather than states, guaranteeing sovereignty. That way the alliance as a whole could set the rules of proper behaviour that everyone must adhere to!

Problem.

It would need the commitment of the US, and Obama or not, I cannot see the US lending their weight to anything that would be seen to upset Israel.

It is the US who keep on using their veto to overule a UN directive to Israel.

I believe there are dozens of examples.

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Problem.

It would need the commitment of the US, and Obama or not, I cannot see the US lending their weight to anything that would be seen to upset Israel.

It is the US who keep on using their veto to overule a UN directive to Israel.

I believe there are dozens of examples.

How could the Israelis resist finally being given the opportunity to create their own homeland? Isn't that why Zionism exists? Once achieved, Jews will no longer have a need for the doctrine and can go back to living in peace with Palestinians.

What a feather in Obamas' cap that would be if he could pull it off! Just pick up from where Clinton left off!

Am I being naive/altruistic/unrealistic?

For as long as Israel exists, in it's present form, there will always be resistance and resentment toward them, and perhaps not without justification, imo.

And it would appear that the tone of others is turning, across the world.

Here is what a senior former politician has to say, and he IS Jewish.




http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qMGuYjt6CP8&eurl=http://www.iranian.com/main/2009/jan/foolish-war-criminals

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:For as long as Israel exists, in it's present form, there will always be resistance and resentment toward them, and perhaps not without justification, imo.

And it would appear that the tone of others is turning, across the world.

Here is what a senior former politician has to say, and he IS Jewish.




http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qMGuYjt6CP8&eurl=http://www.iranian.com/main/2009/jan/foolish-war-criminals

Excellent link and some very good points. Some very sobering truths...This has caused me to completely re-evaluate the whole situation.

Hamas rose out of the death of Yasser Arafat. His death, following a siege instigated by Israel, weakened the Fatah (PLO) to the point where Hamas could claim their election victory. Israel supported Hamas and assisted them in opposition to Fatah. We were all led to believe that Israel saw Arafat as their strongest enemy even though Arafat, through the Oslo Accords brokered by Bill Clinton, was keen to set up a deal for peace between Israel and Palestine.

This smacks of a double-cross on the part of Israel. By assisting the demise of the Fatah who were willing to sue for peace, Israel has helped to bring their sworn enemy to power and at the slightest provocation has sought to destroy them.

This requires a great deal of thought.

Well, it is not often you hear someone be honest enought to admit that, on forums!

So, well done for that.

The more you look, the more you will find respected people, often Jews, sometimes Rabbi's, all saying the same thing.

When they start speaking, you have to think that diversion tactics, such as trying to label someone a 'nazi' or a 'supporter of Hamas', will have limited shelf life.

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Well, it is not often you hear someone be honest enought to admit that, on forums!

So, well done for that.

The more you look, the more you will find respected people, often Jews, sometimes Rabbi's, all saying the same thing.

When they start speaking, you have to think that diversion tactics, such as trying to label someone a 'nazi' or a 'supporter of Hamas', will have limited shelf life.

I've always been able to discern between Palestinians and Hamas. I don't think the two are ideologically connected. I think the same applies to Zionists and Jews.

If the zionist regime ceased to exist in Israel, so would Hamas but I don't believe it would work the other way. If Hamas did not exist, Israel would only become stronger. I now find it concievable that Israel came to the same realization and sought to elevate Hamas to ensure their survival by destroying Hamas militarily and with the blessing of most of the rest of the world.....Expressly or implied.

catch - 22 wrote:

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Well, it is not often you hear someone be honest enought to admit that, on forums!

So, well done for that.

The more you look, the more you will find respected people, often Jews, sometimes Rabbi's, all saying the same thing.

When they start speaking, you have to think that diversion tactics, such as trying to label someone a 'nazi' or a 'supporter of Hamas', will have limited shelf life.

I've always been able to discern between Palestinians and Hamas. I don't think the two are ideologically connected. I think the same applies to Zionists and Jews.

If the zionist regime ceased to exist in Israel, so would Hamas but I don't believe it would work the other way. If Hamas did not exist, Israel would only become stronger..

I agree.

With no Israel, the reason for Hamas would be redundant.

But without a Hamas? It would merely make the Israeli goal come around more speedily.

And we all know what that goal is, right?

Expansion, and not just in a territorial sense, either.

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:

catch - 22 wrote:

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Well, it is not often you hear someone be honest enought to admit that, on forums!

So, well done for that.

The more you look, the more you will find respected people, often Jews, sometimes Rabbi's, all saying the same thing.

When they start speaking, you have to think that diversion tactics, such as trying to label someone a 'nazi' or a 'supporter of Hamas', will have limited shelf life.

I've always been able to discern between Palestinians and Hamas. I don't think the two are ideologically connected. I think the same applies to Zionists and Jews.

If the zionist regime ceased to exist in Israel, so would Hamas but I don't believe it would work the other way. If Hamas did not exist, Israel would only become stronger..

I agree.

With no Israel, the reason for Hamas would be redundant.

But without a Hamas? It would merely make the Israeli goal come around more speedily.

And we all know what that goal is, right?

Expansion, and not just in a territorial sense, either.

This is where I need to discern between the Zionist regime and the general population of Israel as I do with Hamas & Palestinians.
Without a Zionist regime in Israel, Hamas would be redundant and this is where the process needs to begin because as long as Zionist Israel exists, so do those who violently oppose them.
With clearly defined borders and sovereignty of their land guaranteed, both would become mutaully redundant and then the Israeli and Palestinian people could live in peace and begin to lead normal lives.

*Thinks out loud*

I wonder if the US media and, all of those who so stubbornly support Israel, within the US, would do so if the same thing were happening over there, yet Israel were a staunch communist nation?

Would that change your outlook, to those of you who are supportive of Israel, in all of this?


Steve

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:*Thinks out loud*

I wonder if the US media and, all of those who so stubbornly support Israel, within the US, would do so if the same thing were happening over there, yet Israel were a staunch communist nation?

Would that change your outlook, to those of you who are supportive of Israel, in all of this?


Steve

No answer came the firm reply.

The US would never support a communist regime in any event!

At least not overtly!

I see.

So, from that, are we to take it that if Israel were a communist or indeed a socialist nation, and Hamas were shelling them, that the US would cease to fawn over Israel?

Conclusion - As many already know, and more are waking up to, the US support of Israel is entirely political, and nothing at all to do with what is right and wrong.

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:I see.

So, from that, are we to take it that if Israel were a communist or indeed a socialist nation, and Hamas were shelling them, that the US would cease to fawn over Israel?

Conclusion - As many already know, and more are waking up to, the US support of Israel is entirely political, and nothing at all to do with what is right and wrong.

If Israel were a communist or socialist nation Palestine or Hamas may have ceased to exist soon after the first bomb was lobbed.

Possibly the only thing stopping Isreal from all-out genocide is the political (read monitary) support from the U.S.

catch-22 wrote:

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:I see.

So, from that, are we to take it that if Israel were a communist or indeed a socialist nation, and Hamas were shelling them, that the US would cease to fawn over Israel?

Conclusion - As many already know, and more are waking up to, the US support of Israel is entirely political, and nothing at all to do with what is right and wrong.

If Israel were a communist or socialist nation Palestine or Hamas may have ceased to exist soon after the first bomb was lobbed.

Possibly the only thing stopping Isreal from all-out genocide is the political (read monitary) support from the U.S.

Perhaps were Israel based on more socialist principles there would be no Hamas, and events would have figured out more peacefully, over these past few decades?

Just a thought..

Your last line. Are you conceding then that Israel would commit genocide, if it were not for the money that the US give them? Is that what you are saying?

If so, is that not tantamount to blackmail?

Which would make Israel what.....

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:

catch-22 wrote:

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:I see.

So, from that, are we to take it that if Israel were a communist or indeed a socialist nation, and Hamas were shelling them, that the US would cease to fawn over Israel?

Conclusion - As many already know, and more are waking up to, the US support of Israel is entirely political, and nothing at all to do with what is right and wrong.

If Israel were a communist or socialist nation Palestine or Hamas may have ceased to exist soon after the first bomb was lobbed.

Possibly the only thing stopping Isreal from all-out genocide is the political (read monitary) support from the U.S.

Perhaps were Israel based on more socialist principles there would be no Hamas, and events would have figured out more peacefully, over these past few decades?

Just a thought..

Hamas problem with Israel is that they are Zionist Jews and goes way past the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948. It would'nt matter if they were socialists or not. They understand the goals of the Zionists and are fighting to stop them. But why am I telling you all this? You already know.

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Your last line. Are you conceding then that Israel would commit genocide, if it were not for the money that the US give them? Is that what you are saying?

Not a concession, a statement! Are you under the impression I am pro-Israel?

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:If so, is that not tantamount to blackmail?

Which would make Israel what.....

Um, the blackmailee? I'm certain the the only thing holding them back is the possibility they could lose financial support from the US. When the Saudis withdrew financial support from Palestine (via PLO/Fatah) Iran was quick to pick up the tab. Who will support Israel if the we stop sending money? I say no one!

Mind you, if the US government had any guts, they'd tell Israel to make peace with all of their neighbors or go it alone. The only problem there, of course, is that Israel has nukes and I believe they would use them if cornered.

What the US needs to do is get tough on Israel.

Every time there is a UN resolution, it is always the US that veto's it, and has done, so many times.

Is it any wonder if the Arab world feel that the US are biased?

Is it any wonder there is resentment?

Then the money and US supplied hardware.

What message does that send out to Arabs?

To me, it could easy be seen by them as a declaration of war.