More than 1,000 killed in Gaza

Palestinian deaths in the Gaza Strip have passed 1,000, medical sources in Gaza say, as Egypt continues efforts to broker a ceasefire.

Nearly a third of the dead are reported to be children and nearly 5,000 people have been injured.

After talks in Cairo, Hamas officials said they were happy with the broad outlines of an Egyptian initiative but that details remained to be worked out.

Israeli negotiators are to visit Cairo to hear to discuss Egypt's proposal.

The Ministry of Health in Gaza said 1,013 people have died in the conflict which started 19 days ago.

More than 300 of the dead are said to be children, 76 are women and more than 4,500 people have been injured, of whom 1,600 are children and 678 are women.

Thirteen Israelis have been killed, including three civilians and one soldier from rockets fired from Gaza and nine soldiers killed in fighting in Gaza.

It is impossible to independently confirm casualty figures as Israel has refused to allow international journalists to enter Gaza.

Diplomatic push

Egypt has been leading efforts to broker a ceasefire, that could include a new force of peacekeepers to prevent smuggling on its border with Gaza.

After talks with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak in Cairo, UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon said he hoped the Egyptian initiative would show results as soon as possible.

The UN secretary general is in Jordan on the next leg of a Middle East tour before visiting Israel, the West Bank and Syria.

Hamas officials have also been in Cairo for talks with Egyptian negotiators.

"The movement has presented a detailed vision to the Egyptian leadership so that it (Egypt) can continue its pursuit to end the aggression and lift the injustice on our people in the Gaza Strip," Hamas official Salah al-Bardawil said.

These details concerned how to ensure that border crossings into Gaza could be re-opened under international supervision, he said, and would be presented to Israeli envoys visiting Cairo on Thursday.

A senior Israeli defence official, Amos Gilad, is to travel to Cairo on Thursday, a spokesman for Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said.

Earlier on Wednesday, other Hamas officials had said the Egyptian initiative had been positively received but that more time was needed to discuss it.

Hamas, which controls Gaza, has said any ceasefire agreement would have to entail a halt to Israeli attacks, a complete withdrawal of Israeli forces and the opening of border crossings to end the blockade of Gaza.

BBC Arab affairs analyst Magdi Abdelhadi says Israel will not agree to a deal that does not guarantee an end to Hamas's smuggling of weapons across the Egyptian border and the cessation of rocket attacks into southern Israel.

For its part, Hamas refuses to accept an agreement that could in effect spell the beginning of the end for its military wing.

Egypt and other key Arab states can put pressure on Hamas but the US remains unwilling to press Israel to make any concessions, our correspondent says.

'Seeds of extremism'

Israel launched its campaign against Gaza on 27 December, saying it wanted to end Palestinian rocket fire into Israel.

Both Hamas and Israel rejected last week's UN Security Council resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire.

The Israeli offensive has provoked widespread international condemnation at the cost in civilian casualties.

Bolivian President Evo Morales said he was cutting relations with Israel over what he called the "genocide" in Gaza.

President Bashar al-Assad of Syria warned that Israel's campaign would fuel extremism and terrorism in the Arab and Muslim world.

"The effect of war is more dangerous than war. It is sowing seeds of extremism around the region," Mr Assad said in an exclusive BBC interview.

Israeli divisions?

On Wednesday, Israel continued to bombard the Gaza Strip and residents spoke of heavy machine-gun fire as Israeli troops fought Hamas gunmen near Gaza City.

Meanwhile, three rockets were fired from southern Lebanon towards the northern Israeli city of Kiryat Shmona, landing on open ground.

No casualties or damage were reported.

In another development, a newly-released audiotape said to feature the voice of al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden has called for a holy war to stop the Israeli offensive in Gaza.

The authenticity of the tape, posted on a number of Islamic militant websites, could not be independently verified.

Humanitarian concerns have increased amid the fighting, although some aid is getting through to Gaza during daily three-hour lulls Israel has allowed to let in supplies.

315 kids pisses me off.

luciano wrote:315 kids pisses me off.

Children make up a very large % of the Palestine popuation.

The IDF are well aware of this.

Gaza is perhaps among the most densely populated areas in the world.

The IDF know this.

Think about it...

If what the IDF are doing is not state terrorism, then what is?

I wouldnt go as far as to say it is terrorism, its reckless killing though.

I think Hamas shares just as much blame for the deaths as Israel, wonder how many of these child deaths were teenage soldiers?


But something about this offensive hasnt been right on Israel's part, I been saying that since it began.

400 women and children out of 1000 is just unacceptable, and that willy pete stuff shouldnt be being used.

Hamas has played a huge part in those deaths too though.

What's worse is the IDF is using DU munitions as well. The birth defect rates in Iraq since the US invasion in 2003 has taken its toll on babies there.

Israel goes into Gaza, takes a little International 'heat' for a short interim and blasts the population with DU ammo to help curb the birth rate there, not to mention the immediate population control.

Israel relies on immigration to increase its population compared to Arab nations merely producing babies like factories.

It reminds me of how Egypt looked upon the Israel before Moses' time. The Israelites outnumbered the Egyptians and therefore were perceived as a threat to Egypt. Shortly after, the Israelites were made to be slaves since they did not have an army to resist.

Ironic that now it is Israel returning the favor. I highly doubt slavery will be the result however.

History does repeat itself in many ways.

luciano wrote:I wouldnt go as far as to say it is terrorism, its reckless killing though.

I think Hamas shares just as much blame for the deaths as Israel, wonder how many of these child deaths were teenage soldiers?


But something about this offensive hasnt been right on Israel's part, I been saying that since it began.

400 women and children out of 1000 is just unacceptable, and that willy pete stuff shouldnt be being used.

Hamas has played a huge part in those deaths too though.

To me, you make a lot of sense L.

I mean, it seems that both parties are eager to blow each other up. The entire ME mind-set is so incredibly hot headed and stubborn. These people have, historically, not thought things out on a diplomatic level, nor used diplomacy to their benefit. They are a primal people, the whole bunch of them, and there's enough blame to serve both sides.

HotParadox wrote:
To me, you make a lot of sense L.

I mean, it seems that both parties are eager to blow each other up. The entire ME mind-set is so incredibly hot headed and stubborn. These people have, historically, not thought things out on a diplomatic level, nor used diplomacy to their benefit. They are a primal people, the whole bunch of them, and there's enough blame to serve both sides.

Boy, if that doesn't sum it up nicely. Hammering onthe 'we're right/you're wrong' type of discussion, at this time, serves no purpose. There must be a cease-fire in this lop-sided conflict.

luciano wrote:I wouldnt go as far as to say it is terrorism, its reckless killing though. .

Reckless Killing?

Hey, what is the difference between that and 'terrorism', as brought to you by the Western media?

If you look close, you find there is no difference, just gangsters in power, running arounnd, murdering innocents in the name of some 'cause'.

Usually a cause which has money, territory or religion at it's root.

One of those.

Sometimes all.

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:

luciano wrote:I wouldnt go as far as to say it is terrorism, its reckless killing though. .

Reckless Killing?

Hey, what is the difference between that and 'terrorism', as brought to you by the Western media?

If you look close, you find there is no difference, just gangsters in power, running arounnd, murdering innocents in the name of some 'cause'.

Usually a cause which has money, territory or religion at it's root.

One of those.

Sometimes all.

Heres what I mean by it, I dont believe its terrorism, they have every right to do it in my opinion. They are defending their country.

But I think it has been overkill by Israel, the way they are going about it, just dont seem to me they have to do the airstrikes so intense, and they still havent actually tried to topple the Hamas government. When you kill people, it should be about to bring a means to ending it. If this ends with Hamas in charge still what will change?

Hamas is killing it's own people, look at the graph, its just as much their fault people in Gaza are dying, Hamas' cause is stated in its Charter, to eliminate the state of Israel. They have failed miserably, and need to give it up. The Palestinian cause is supposed to be about bringing them their own state right, how is Hamas representing their own people? Terribly, before they got violent recently, they had approval ratings similar to George Bush. Hamas is shooting firecrackers at Israel and Israel is answering with 2,000 lb pounds, and thats what I mean by overkill. And Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas, I think it is wrong especially when no one is equipped in Gaza to mount much resistance to Israel, its overkill. Highly irresponsible.

I dont know what else to say, the Palestinians deserve better than Hamas.

Yes, they DO deserve better than Hamas.

But they deserve better also from the UN and from Israel.

They do not get it, since the US keeps on using it's power of veto.

Without a real voice, and apparently ignored, is it any wonder that a group like Hamas would ever form?

Of course not.

Gaza is a prison, in essence.

Put people in living conditions like that, and what sort of leaders are going to emerge?

One's like Hamas.