Ron Paul on Gaza and on the US Financial Mess

Open for discussion:
There is no fooling around with this guy. He makes it clear and he makes sense. That's my opinion.

Incidentally, Ron Paul was the only House Republican to vote against supporting Israel.
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/wire.php?view=1660

Here's Ron Paul (R-Texas) on Gaza and on the US financial mess.

Anybody?

You know I like Ron Paul and I agree with a lot of what he says usually. The only thing about him that scares me is his supporters, and I dont mean people like you HP, just seems like the worst groups in America support this guy. Now I know that's not his fault, but it still makes me wonder.

Now to the video, I TOTALLY agree with what he thinks the US should do as foreign policy when it comes to this situation. We should remain neutral publicly. When this came to a head, I think the responsible thing would have been for Condoleeza Rice to come out and say somethink like " We implore both sides to stop the violence and get back to the negotiations table". A simple statement like this would not alienate either side, and if we want to be part of the peace talks when they finally happen, that's the way we have to deal with it in my opinion to be trusted by both sides.

The Palestinians' plight does affect us as Americans, if you notice every single Al-Qaeda message or Islamic terrorist groups always mention the Palestinians, this is a driving force in my opinion to why young muslims all over the world turn to terror. If somehow peace could be brought to Israel and Palestine, I think America's terror problems would be reduced. Now peace in Israel wont be easy obviously, and it may never happen, but I think the way our public position is on this matter doesnt help at all, we clearly take sides with Israel. I mean I would say I am actually on Israel's "side" but I dont think it is responsible for my government to publicly take their side, I just dont see how it can help America to keep that position, if anything it is pushing more extremists to target America, and is doing nothing to reduce the risks or enhance our public view in the muslim world. After 9/11 I was mad(still am) and I wanted to "kill them all" but as time goes by I am realizing this strategy is never gonna work, just not possible. So we have to work diplomatically to improve our situation, Im hoping our new government will make more efforts in this direction, maybe be a little sterner to Israel, and a little more sympathetic to the Palestinian's problems. In other words: Take a Neutral Stance

Now as for the economic crisis, I cant say it enough, stop giving my money away, please. I dont like it, I got more confidence in our private citizens being able to work this out than our government. Printing money is not the answer, and surely giving it to companies that have proved they cant run their business correctly isnt either. Nothing grinds my gears more than "Bailout Mania".

HP, was it easy for you to embed that video?

You make great points L. The one thing I would like to discuss is your comment regarding the supporters of Dr. Paul. Please watch this video, watch him in congress before we discuss his supporters.

Besides you L, I would love The Ghost of Yeah Well Fine Then to especially watch this.

luciano wrote:HP, was it easy for you to embed that video?

Totally.

HotParadox wrote:You make great points L. The one thing I would like to discuss is your comment regarding the supporters of Dr. Paul. Please watch this video, watch him in congress before we discuss his supporters.

Besides you L, I would love The Ghost of Yeah Well Fine Then to especially watch this.

He certainly does tell it like it is, the guy doesnt dance around any subjects. Its admirable of him but it also commits his own political suicide. He may put too much info out there for his own good but its a service to us as people.

Lol @ what Georgie said at the end of that video.

Ya, Georgie's a regular hoot.

NEways, I am waiting for Steve to see this second video, because this is what tells us why some of Dr. Paul's, supporters are a bit, um, over the top. But I know the answer why and after seeing this vid, so should you!

P.S. Isn't Dr. Paul the classic pediatrician? The one that you always wished for, for your kids?

HotParadox wrote:You make great points L. The one thing I would like to discuss is your comment regarding the supporters of Dr. Paul. Please watch this video, watch him in congress before we discuss his supporters.

Besides you L, I would love The Ghost of Yeah Well Fine Then to especially watch this.

Heck.

That could be me stood there, saying those things.

Good on the guy for speaking out against the tide, as it were.

luciano wrote:

HotParadox wrote:You make great points L. The one thing I would like to discuss is your comment regarding the supporters of Dr. Paul. Please watch this video, watch him in congress before we discuss his supporters.

Besides you L, I would love The Ghost of Yeah Well Fine Then to especially watch this.

He certainly does tell it like it is, the guy doesnt dance around any subjects. Its admirable of him but it also commits his own political suicide. He may put too much info out there for his own good but its a service to us as people.

Lol @ what Georgie said at the end of that video.

It does.

However, that is the whole point. It being that way conflicts directly with the whole ethos of a true democracy, doesn't it..?

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:

HotParadox wrote:You make great points L. The one thing I would like to discuss is your comment regarding the supporters of Dr. Paul. Please watch this video, watch him in congress before we discuss his supporters.

Besides you L, I would love The Ghost of Yeah Well Fine Then to especially watch this.

Heck.

That could be me stood there, saying those things.

Good on the guy for speaking out against the tide, as it were.

It is you.

I'm telling you, Steve, this guy, if he were running for prez today would win, hands down. Why? Because just a few moths ago the media and the Hollywood crowd were all about the charisma of BO. They were also pro-Israel. Especially the media/Hollywood crowd. Hell, the Jews own Lalaland.

BUT, now, suddenly, the in-crowd is not so much pro-Israel and not so wishy-washy about the situation as is BO. This guy, if the election were going on today, would be celebrated like New Year's Eve at the nuthouse. Suddenly, everybody loves him. Jackasses thought he was too radical six months ago.

Which leads me to L's point about the type of supporters Dr. Paul attracts. Paul is an iconoclast. And that is who he attracts. And that is what this country needs. But we blew it, big time, because Paul was seen as too 'radical'.

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:

luciano wrote:

HotParadox wrote:You make great points L. The one thing I would like to discuss is your comment regarding the supporters of Dr. Paul. Please watch this video, watch him in congress before we discuss his supporters.

Besides you L, I would love The Ghost of Yeah Well Fine Then to especially watch this.

He certainly does tell it like it is, the guy doesnt dance around any subjects. Its admirable of him but it also commits his own political suicide. He may put too much info out there for his own good but its a service to us as people.

Lol @ what Georgie said at the end of that video.

It does.

However, that is the whole point. It being that way conflicts directly with the whole ethos of a true democracy, doesn't it..?

Its a shame Steve, but it seems like to be a successful national stage politician in America, when someone asks you a controversial question, the status quo is to say a bunch of mumbo jumbo without really answering the question or showing your true opinion on the subject. You dont get to show your true colors until after you are elected. Thats a problem.

Edit: Dammit I didnt mean to post as "admin"

Admin wrote:

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:

luciano wrote:

HotParadox wrote:You make great points L. The one thing I would like to discuss is your comment regarding the supporters of Dr. Paul. Please watch this video, watch him in congress before we discuss his supporters.

Besides you L, I would love The Ghost of Yeah Well Fine Then to especially watch this.

He certainly does tell it like it is, the guy doesnt dance around any subjects. Its admirable of him but it also commits his own political suicide. He may put too much info out there for his own good but its a service to us as people.

Lol @ what Georgie said at the end of that video.

It does.

However, that is the whole point. It being that way conflicts directly with the whole ethos of a true democracy, doesn't it..?

Its a shame Steve, but it seems like to be a successful national stage politician in America, when someone asks you a controversial question, the status quo is to say a bunch of mumbo jumbo without really answering the question or showing your true opinion on the subject. You dont get to show your true colors until after you are elected. Thats a problem.

If I may, L...

Paul did NOT hide his true self. We always knew who he was and what he wanted and what his true color were and are.

But we didn't want that. We wanted a 'show', a Hollywood production, a warm fuzzy actor.

Well, now, as I say, people are looking at this man not so much as a radical, but as a progressive realist.

Paul did NOT hide his true self. We always knew who he was and what he wanted and what his true color were and are.

I know and thats why Im saying he will never be successful as a presidential candidate in my opinion.

HotParadox wrote:

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:

HotParadox wrote:You make great points L. The one thing I would like to discuss is your comment regarding the supporters of Dr. Paul. Please watch this video, watch him in congress before we discuss his supporters.

Besides you L, I would love The Ghost of Yeah Well Fine Then to especially watch this.

Heck.

That could be me stood there, saying those things.

Good on the guy for speaking out against the tide, as it were.

It is you.

I'm telling you, Steve, this guy, if he were running for prez today would win, hands down. Why? Because just a few moths ago the media and the Hollywood crowd were all about the charisma of BO. They were also pro-Israel. Especially the media/Hollywood crowd. Hell, the Jews own Lalaland.

BUT, now, suddenly, the in-crowd is not so much pro-Israel and not so wishy-washy about the situation as is BO. This guy, if the election were going on today, would be celebrated like New Year's Eve at the nuthouse. Suddenly, everybody loves him. Jackasses thought he was too radical six months ago.

Which leads me to L's point about the type of supporters Dr. Paul attracts. Paul is an iconoclast. And that is who he attracts. And that is what this country needs. But we blew it, big time, because Paul was seen as too 'radical'.

He wouldn't win.

Of that I am sure.

The system would not permit it.

There is no room in politics for those who dare ask the 'wrong' questions about the 'wrong' subjects, you see.

The system would find a method to discredit him.

http://www.reference.com/search?q=Iconoclast

Thats what I think too, the media will always sabotage his efforts. They label him and its over before it gets started.

It's probably why he is, ironically, able to speak with such freedom.

He knows that he will never be President, no matter if he is the better man, therefore, he can speak out, without the fear that it would cripple his chances.

Peregrine wrote:I usually stay away from this topic...it has been going on for thousands of years with no end in sight...Its tragic!! I will say my sympathy is with the Palestian people. I'll leave it at that...my very simplistic view.

It hasn't.

Prior to establishing the state of Israel, Jews and Muslims lived peacefully alongside one another.

Even Jews and Muslims will tell you the same, from that region.

Well I wasn't behind any of the candidates. He could have been the one to actually push me to vote just for the heck of it. However, like Luciano said, I looked at who was supporting him and it made me nervous. All the boys at the gun range were all gung ho about him. And I got to tell ya, I get nervous about anything those boys get gung ho about.

I think it's time the US quit handing out money to these business people and let them sink or swim. They've proven they can't handle their business. If anything put part of that money into the smaller businesses that just couldn't compete with the money the big guys could throw around. Those are the ones that have built their business on quality and service anyway, that's the only thing they had to compete with.

I think we need to keep our nose out of the Israel - Palestine problem and simply tell them when they've had enough fighting and killing to call us and we'll help them build a peace. But make it known that part of that peace will involve Israel giving up some land that they took from the palestinians. Israel does have a right to exist, but they have and had no right to take what they have taken.

It's time the US stopped messing in the little squabbles between each and every country and set our sights on the ones that are causing us problems. For example... Find and kill Bin Laden! and all his cronies. His followers think we're a joke because one pitiful man with kidney problems can make a mochary of the US. We need to turn our attention to Iran. If that nut that runs Iran gets nukes no one is going to be safe. I don't think we should deny anyone technology if they can use it in a peaceful manner. That guy has no intention of doing anything peacefuly. JMO

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:http://www.reference.com/search?q=Iconoclast

i·con·o·clast (ī-kŏn'ə-klāst') Pronunciation Key
n.

1. One who attacks and seeks to overthrow traditional or popular ideas or institutions.
2. One who destroys sacred religious images.


[French iconoclaste, from Medieval Greek eikonoklastēs, smasher of religious images : eikono-, icono- + Greek -klastēs, breaker (from Greek klān, klas-, to break).]
i·con'o·clas'tic adj., i·con'o·clas'ti·cal·ly adv.

Word History: An iconoclast can be unpleasant company, but at least the modern iconoclast only attacks such things as ideas and institutions. The original iconoclasts destroyed countless works of art. Eikonoklastēs, the ancestor of our word, was first formed in Medieval Greek from the elements eikōn, "image, likeness," and -klastēs, "breaker," from klān, "to break." The images referred to by the word are religious images, which were the subject of controversy among Christians of the Byzantine Empire in the 8th and 9th centuries, when iconoclasm was at its height. In addition to destroying many sculptures and paintings, those opposed to images attempted to have them barred from display and veneration. During the Protestant Reformation images in churches were again felt to be idolatrous and were once more banned and destroyed. It is around this time that iconoclast, the descendant of the Greek word, is first recorded in English (1641), with reference to the Byzantine iconoclasts. In the 19th century iconoclast took on the secular sense that it has today, as in "Kant was the great iconoclast" (James Martineau).

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/iconoclast

HP, check your Pms, I can tell you probably havent seen it yet. Because its still in my "outbox" and once you read it, it gets moved to "sentbox" on these free forums.

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:

Peregrine wrote:I usually stay away from this topic...[b]it has been going on for thousands of years with no end in sight...Its tragic!! I will say my sympathy is with the Palestian people. I'll leave it at that...my very simplistic view.

It hasn't.

Prior to establishing the state of Israel, Jews and Muslims lived peacefully alongside one another.

Even Jews and Muslims will tell you the same, from that region.

From the bible's propective it has been going on for a long time...According to the bible the jews are God's chosen people. The jews were wondering in the desert and God told them he would lead them to the promised land. [/b] The rest is history....[/b]

luciano wrote:HP, check your Pms, I can tell you probably havent seen it yet. Because its still in my "outbox" and once you read it, it gets moved to "sentbox" on these free forums.

OK, L, I answered your PM. Thanks,
Hot

CarolinaHound wrote:Well I wasn't behind any of the candidates. He could have been the one to actually push me to vote just for the heck of it. However, like Luciano said, I looked at who was supporting him and it made me nervous. All the boys at the gun range were all gung ho about him. And I got to tell ya, I get nervous about anything those boys get gung ho about.

I think it's time the US quit handing out money to these business people and let them sink or swim. They've proven they can't handle their business. If anything put part of that money into the smaller businesses that just couldn't compete with the money the big guys could throw around. Those are the ones that have built their business on quality and service anyway, that's the only thing they had to compete with.

I think we need to keep our nose out of the Israel - Palestine problem and simply tell them when they've had enough fighting and killing to call us and we'll help them build a peace. But make it known that part of that peace will involve Israel giving up some land that they took from the palestinians. Israel does have a right to exist, but they have and had no right to take what they have taken.

It's time the US stopped messing in the little squabbles between each and every country and set our sights on the ones that are causing us problems. For example... Find and kill Bin Laden! and all his cronies. His followers think we're a joke because one pitiful man with kidney problems can make a mochary of the US. We need to turn our attention to Iran. If that nut that runs Iran gets nukes no one is going to be safe. I don't think we should deny anyone technology if they can use it in a peaceful manner. That guy has no intention of doing anything peacefuly. JMO

The Iranian leader is being portrayed to you a certain way, on purpose.

The US are no longer looking for Bin Laden, imo. If they ever really were. Might suit them better to have him out there?

Peregrine wrote:

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:

Peregrine wrote:I usually stay away from this topic...[b]it has been going on for thousands of years with no end in sight...Its tragic!! I will say my sympathy is with the Palestian people. I'll leave it at that...my very simplistic view.

It hasn't.

Prior to establishing the state of Israel, Jews and Muslims lived peacefully alongside one another.

Even Jews and Muslims will tell you the same, from that region.

From the bible's propective it has been going on for a long time...According to the bible

Ah.

According to the Bible.

Okay, well that puts a different angle on how one would look at it, then.

From the perspective of a historian, they lived alongside one another in peace and harmony, even baby sitting each other's children, believe it or not.

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:

CarolinaHound wrote:Well I wasn't behind any of the candidates. He could have been the one to actually push me to vote just for the heck of it. However, like Luciano said, I looked at who was supporting him and it made me nervous. All the boys at the gun range were all gung ho about him. And I got to tell ya, I get nervous about anything those boys get gung ho about.

I think it's time the US quit handing out money to these business people and let them sink or swim. They've proven they can't handle their business. If anything put part of that money into the smaller businesses that just couldn't compete with the money the big guys could throw around. Those are the ones that have built their business on quality and service anyway, that's the only thing they had to compete with.

I think we need to keep our nose out of the Israel - Palestine problem and simply tell them when they've had enough fighting and killing to call us and we'll help them build a peace. But make it known that part of that peace will involve Israel giving up some land that they took from the palestinians. Israel does have a right to exist, but they have and had no right to take what they have taken.

It's time the US stopped messing in the little squabbles between each and every country and set our sights on the ones that are causing us problems. For example... Find and kill Bin Laden! and all his cronies. His followers think we're a joke because one pitiful man with kidney problems can make a mochary of the US. We need to turn our attention to Iran. If that nut that runs Iran gets nukes no one is going to be safe. I don't think we should deny anyone technology if they can use it in a peaceful manner. That guy has no intention of doing anything peacefuly. JMO

The Iranian leader is being portrayed to you a certain way, on purpose.

The US are no longer looking for Bin Laden, imo. If they ever really were. Might suit them better to have him out there?

What are you reading or viewing that shows him in a different way?

I gain information from as diverse a range of sources as I can.

I find that way, you get the best balance.

There is no real need for me to seek items which want to portray the Iranian leader as a 'monster', nor is there any real need to seek items that support Israel, no matter what. Much of the mainstream press and tv do that, just fine.

The truly 'free' press today, well, it exists on the internet.

So I read as much up as possible, from all angles.

Then I make a judgement, based on that, I suppose.

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:I gain information from as diverse a range of sources as I can.

I find that way, you get the best balance.

There is no real need for me to seek items which want to portray the Iranian leader as a 'monster', nor is there any real need to seek items that support Israel, no matter what. Much of the mainstream press and tv do that, just fine.

The truly 'free' press today, well, it exists on the internet.

So I read as much up as possible, from all angles.

Then I make a judgement, based on that, I suppose.

That's what I do. I think he's trouble.

Based on what?

Based on the fact that he hasn't got any nuke capability, and even if they had, can you blame them? They know that the US have them on their radar, for whatever reason, and they need only look next door to see what happens when the US attack, and you have a poor means of defence. Therefore, if anything, the US going into nations and invading them is likely to create more of a desire to arm yourself with a nuke, not less.

Based on the fact that he hasn't ordered action against Israel, despite what is happening in Gaza.

Yeah, I know, you might say that he knows it would be unwise, but remember, this is a 'radical' and 'extremist' we are speaking of here. Doubt he would be fussed over such matters.


Based on the fact that Jews in Iran are better treated than non Jews in Israel?

CarolinaHound wrote:

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:I gain information from as diverse a range of sources as I can.

I find that way, you get the best balance.

There is no real need for me to seek items which want to portray the Iranian leader as a 'monster', nor is there any real need to seek items that support Israel, no matter what. Much of the mainstream press and tv do that, just fine.

The truly 'free' press today, well, it exists on the internet.

So I read as much up as possible, from all angles.

Then I make a judgement, based on that, I suppose.

That's what I do. I think he's trouble.

I have to agree with you, doggieboy. (I can't believe I just said that.)
Plus if you don't search the internet for both sides of the coin then it's no different than the MSM.

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Based on what?

Based on the fact that he hasn't got any nuke capability, and even if they had, can you blame them? They know that the US have them on their radar, for whatever reason, and they need only look next door to see what happens when the US attack, and you have a poor means of defence. Therefore, if anything, the US going into nations and invading them is likely to create more of a desire to arm yourself with a nuke, not less.

Based on the fact that he hasn't ordered action against Israel, despite what is happening in Gaza.

Yeah, I know, you might say that he knows it would be unwise, but remember, this is a 'radical' and 'extremist' we are speaking of here. Doubt he would be fussed over such matters.


Based on the fact that Jews in Iran are better treated than non Jews in Israel?

Nope, base on the fact that he has been a terrorist. He's help take part in hostage taking, and he tend to speak of wiping countries off the face of the map rather than saying stuff like there should be political and trade sanctions first. Also based on the fact that he backs terrorist. All in all, he aint a very stable person.

CarolinaHound wrote:

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Based on what?

Based on the fact that he hasn't got any nuke capability, and even if they had, can you blame them? They know that the US have them on their radar, for whatever reason, and they need only look next door to see what happens when the US attack, and you have a poor means of defence. Therefore, if anything, the US going into nations and invading them is likely to create more of a desire to arm yourself with a nuke, not less.

Based on the fact that he hasn't ordered action against Israel, despite what is happening in Gaza.

Yeah, I know, you might say that he knows it would be unwise, but remember, this is a 'radical' and 'extremist' we are speaking of here. Doubt he would be fussed over such matters.


Based on the fact that Jews in Iran are better treated than non Jews in Israel?

Nope, base on the fact that he has been a terrorist. He's help take part in hostage taking, and he tend to speak of wiping countries off the face of the map rather than saying stuff like there should be political and trade sanctions first. Also based on the fact that he backs terrorist. All in all, he aint a very stable person.

But do you not see the pattern here?

In order for a superpower (sic) to have any function, it must always have at least one perpetual enemy.

If need be, they must go out and literally create one, whether it is legitimate or otherwise.

In the past, the US used the 'demon' of communism to strike fear into the heart of their own people.

These days it is 'radical Islamists'.

Same deal, different label.

Were it not Islam, the US would need to find another target.

And that target would be portrayed in Western media in the most negative way possible, would they not?

Of course they would.

That is why I am careful not to be too quick to condemn other nations and cultures.

But, Steve, forgetting that the US would just pick on another ideology, in the opinion of most civilized peoples and countries, isn't this guy a cruel, ruthless individual, a brutal terror inducer? You agree, no? I hope you do not compare him to George Bush, as I have a feeling you will.

HotParadox wrote:But, Steve, forgetting that the US would just pick on another ideology, in the opinion of most civilized peoples and countries, isn't this guy a cruel, ruthless individual, a brutal terror inducer? You agree, no? I hope you do not compare him to George Bush, as I have a feeling you will.

To make direct comparisons is always hard. But for sure, before any nation comes along and thinks they know enough to go around condemning other nations, then they have to firstly make sure that they are 'clean'.

I think it would be stretching it to describe Bushco as 'clean', don't you?

Anything but, I would have thought.

I have no real idea what his personality is like, and everyone else on here can only form an image that depends entirely on what is spewed out to them by the media.

The media in the west are merely priming everyone for a future attack on Iran, and to do that, they have to demonise that nation, over a period. It worked prior to Iraq, so many sheeple in support of that.

There is no evidence that the US Government was behind 911. Those who would have the world believe that we are the enemy spew this. I'm not the only one who holds BL responsible. He is/was the leader of Al-Qaeda. I think he stands tall above all others in the field of bastards.

HotParadox wrote:There is no evidence that the US Government was behind 911. .

I didn't say that they did...?

Anyway, what has 911 got to do with this little chat?

I thought we were on about Iran?

HotParadox wrote:There is no evidence that the US Government was behind 911. Those who would have the world believe that we are the enemy spew this. I'm not the only one who holds BL responsible. He is/was the leader of Al-Qaeda. I think he stands tall above all others in the field of bastards.

None whatsoever, al-qaeda and Bin Laden pulled it off without a doubt and hopefully someday I'll get to see him in handcuffs being led into a New York City courtroom(where he has been indicted since the 90's).

That will be a great day for America. We will finally have closure.

The fact that we never got him and yet got Saddam Hussein makes me even angrier at George Bush though.

I also find the notion we are just targeting the president of Iran for shits and giggles laughable too. I just dont know what to say about that other than that. Im of the opinion they cant have nukes at all and something should of been done about it years ago. All the shit that goes on in the Middle East, then add in a nuclear power, that cant be good.

I dont think its good Israel and Pakistan have them too, but we cant go back in time, they got em now.

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:

HotParadox wrote:There is no evidence that the US Government was behind 911. .

I didn't say that they did...?

Anyway, what has 911 got to do with this little chat?

I thought we were on about Iran?

LOL, I don't know how the hell I got to that! Oh, yes, it was in response to this:
"To make direct comparisons is always hard. But for sure, before any nation comes along and thinks they know enough to go around condemning other nations, then they have to firstly make sure that they are 'clean'."