REPUBLICANS CLAIM STIMULUS WOULD AID ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS

So what? If they are paying taxes then they should get the same tax relief everyone else gets. It shouldn't matter if they are illegal aliens. If they pay taxes then they're contributing, right?

How do illegal aliens get jobs and pay taxes...they are illegal right???..please shed some light

Peregrine wrote:How do illegal aliens get jobs and pay taxes...they are illegal right???..please shed some light

That would be a part of their "illegal" package. One of the perks, I guess....

If you are an illegal immigrant. You deserve nothing from the government. If you paid into the system. I don't care. You are not supposed to be here. Now if you came here as a legal immigrant, well then that is a different discussion.

howdy wrote:If you are an illegal immigrant. You deserve nothing from the government. If you paid into the system. I don't care. You are not supposed to be here. Now if you came here as a legal immigrant, well then that is a different discussion.

Exactly. Giving in to this would be like letting the bank robber keep the money. Any gains obtained during an unlawful act are subject to forfeiture. Period.

Peregrine wrote:How do illegal aliens get jobs and pay taxes...they are illegal right???..please shed some light

I don't have any idea how they would do this. The article said:

Undocumented immigrants who are not eligible for a Social Security number can file tax returns with an alternative number. A House-passed version of the economic recovery bill and one making its way through the Senate would allow anyone with such a number, called an individual taxpayer identification number, to qualify for the tax credits.

So by that, if they are working and contributing to society by paying taxes they should get the same tax relief everyone else gets. And if the government was so worried about getting all of the undocumented immigrants out of the country why do they allow them to file tax return. They're not good enough to be here but they're good enough to pay taxes? What a buch of bullshit.

DM007 wrote:Exactly. Giving in to this would be like letting the bank robber keep the money. Any gains obtained during an unlawful act are subject to forfeiture. Period.

Not even the same thing. They did not obtain the money through an illegal act. Working for a living is not an illegal act.

This country was founded by illegal immigrants. The citizens who flocked to this country didn't go through any immigration checkpoints. They came here to start a new life, which is exactly what most immigrants are doing now. Do you realize it can take over 10 years to apply and obtain citizenship though the current process?

Think about this, what if you were a new parent living in poverty and you brought in about $10 a month. You learn that you can take your child to the US and clean bathrooms and make $10 an hour! Which option would let your child have a better life? Would you risk getting caught by border patrol to help your child? Hell yes you would.

I don't understand why everbody in this country is so afraid of immigrants. The vast majority of them come here to work and since the majority of them are uneducated they take the jobs that most fat, lazy Americans don't want. So what! Let them work, let them provide for their families, walk a mile in their shoes.

And don't give me that rhetoric about our taxes are paying for their kids to go to school, blah, blah, blah. Our taxes pay for your kids to go to school too don't they? You're going to pay these taxes anyway so why not let somebody who came from nothing, better their children? Are they going to lower our taxes if all the immigrants went away? Hell no they won't. Most Americans are so self centered that they refuse to help someone less fortunate than themselves.

Big Slick wrote:This country was founded by illegal immigrants. The citizens who flocked to this country didn't go through any immigration checkpoints. They came here to start a new life, which is exactly what most immigrants are doing now. Do you realize it can take over 10 years to apply and obtain citizenship though the current process?

Think about this, what if you were a new parent living in poverty and you brought in about $10 a month. You learn that you can take your child to the US and clean bathrooms and make $10 an hour! Which option would let your child have a better life? Would you risk getting caught by border patrol to help your child? Hell yes you would.

I don't understand why everbody in this country is so afraid of immigrants. The vast majority of them come here to work and since the majority of them are uneducated they take the jobs that most fat, lazy Americans don't want. So what! Let them work, let them provide for their families, walk a mile in their shoes.

And don't give me that rhetoric about our taxes are paying for their kids to go to school, blah, blah, blah. Our taxes pay for your kids to go to school too don't they? You're going to pay these taxes anyway so why not let somebody who came from nothing, better their children? Are they going to lower our taxes if all the immigrants went away? Hell no they won't. Most Americans are so self centered that they refuse to help someone less fortunate than themselves.

Excellent post(insert thumbs up smilie here)

Big Slick wrote:

Peregrine wrote:How do illegal aliens get jobs and pay taxes...they are illegal right???..please shed some light

I don't have any idea how they would do this. The article said:

Undocumented immigrants who are not eligible for a Social Security number can file tax returns with an alternative number. A House-passed version of the economic recovery bill and one making its way through the Senate would allow anyone with such a number, called an individual taxpayer identification number, to qualify for the tax credits.

So by that, if they are working and contributing to society by paying taxes they should get the same tax relief everyone else gets. And if the government was so worried about getting all of the undocumented immigrants out of the country why do they allow them to file tax return. They're not good enough to be here but they're good enough to pay taxes? What a buch of bullshit.

DM007 wrote:Exactly. Giving in to this would be like letting the bank robber keep the money. Any gains obtained during an unlawful act are subject to forfeiture. Period.

Not even the same thing. They did not obtain the money through an illegal act. Working for a living is not an illegal act.

This country was founded by illegal immigrants. The citizens who flocked to this country didn't go through any immigration checkpoints. They came here to start a new life, which is exactly what most immigrants are doing now. Do you realize it can take over 10 years to apply and obtain citizenship though the current process?

Think about this, what if you were a new parent living in poverty and you brought in about $10 a month. You learn that you can take your child to the US and clean bathrooms and make $10 an hour! Which option would let your child have a better life? Would you risk getting caught by border patrol to help your child? Hell yes you would.

I don't understand why everbody in this country is so afraid of immigrants. The vast majority of them come here to work and since the majority of them are uneducated they take the jobs that most fat, lazy Americans don't want. So what! Let them work, let them provide for their families, walk a mile in their shoes.

And don't give me that rhetoric about our taxes are paying for their kids to go to school, blah, blah, blah. Our taxes pay for your kids to go to school too don't they? You're going to pay these taxes anyway so why not let somebody who came from nothing, better their children? Are they going to lower our taxes if all the immigrants went away? Hell no they won't. Most Americans are so self centered that they refuse to help someone less fortunate than themselves.

Tell my son, who works in construction, why its alright for construction companies to take on illegal aliens who are willing to work for really low wages putting him out of work. I'll leave it at that

First of all, Hi thomasjay!!!

Anyways, as far as what B said here:

Big Slick wrote:Not even the same thing. They did not obtain the money through an illegal act. Working for a living is not an illegal act.

My only problem with that is they sort of did obtain the money illegally, since they are here illegally. Which brings us right back to the question: Why is the government letting them work and pay taxes if they are that loathe to illegal aliens?

Peregrine wrote:Tell my son, who works in construction, why its alright for construction companies to take on illegal aliens who are willing to work for really low wages putting him out of work. I'll leave it at that

How is that fair to our own men and women such as Peregrine's boy?

HotParadox wrote:First of all, Hi thomasjay!!!

Anyways, as far as what B said here:

Big Slick wrote:Not even the same thing. They did not obtain the money through an illegal act. Working for a living is not an illegal act.

My only problem with that is they sort of did obtain the money illegally, since they are here illegally. Which brings us right back to the question: Why is the government letting them work and pay taxes if they are that loathe to illegal aliens?

Peregrine wrote:Tell my son, who works in construction, why its alright for construction companies to take on illegal aliens who are willing to work for really low wages putting him out of work. I'll leave it at that

How is that fair to our own men and women such as Peregrine's boy?

It's not fair, but that is the nature of competition. Would it be any more fair for a legal US citizen who dropped out of HS and is willing to take a low wage to take the job? It's always unfortunate when someone loses their job and I would never wish that on anyone but the work environment is a competitive place. And if the immigrants were not there then there would be someone who is willing to take a low wage. The problem is not immigrants, if they weren't accepting lower wages, someone else would.

Big Slick wrote:

HotParadox wrote:First of all, Hi thomasjay!!!

Anyways, as far as what B said here:

Big Slick wrote:Not even the same thing. They did not obtain the money through an illegal act. Working for a living is not an illegal act.

My only problem with that is they sort of did obtain the money illegally, since they are here illegally. Which brings us right back to the question: Why is the government letting them work and pay taxes if they are that loathe to illegal aliens?

Peregrine wrote:Tell my son, who works in construction, why its alright for construction companies to take on illegal aliens who are willing to work for really low wages putting him out of work. I'll leave it at that

How is that fair to our own men and women such as Peregrine's boy?

It's not fair, but that is the nature of competition. Would it be any more fair for a legal US citizen who dropped out of HS and is willing to take a low wage to take the job? It's always unfortunate when someone loses their job and I would never wish that on anyone but the work environment is a competitive place. And if the immigrants were not there then there would be someone who is willing to take a low wage. The problem is not immigrants, if they weren't accepting lower wages, someone else would.

For me this has nothing to do with immigrants. Just illegal immigrants. If immigrants are legal... a big thumbs up because, hey basically, we are all immigrants. Having said that, I don't blame the illegals either, since the government seems to be talking out of both sides of it's twisted mouth:We don't want you if you're illegal but you can work here and pay taxes.

HotParadox wrote:

Big Slick wrote:

HotParadox wrote:First of all, Hi thomasjay!!!

Anyways, as far as what B said here:

Big Slick wrote:Not even the same thing. They did not obtain the money through an illegal act. Working for a living is not an illegal act.

My only problem with that is they sort of did obtain the money illegally, since they are here illegally. Which brings us right back to the question: Why is the government letting them work and pay taxes if they are that loathe to illegal aliens?

Peregrine wrote:Tell my son, who works in construction, why its alright for construction companies to take on illegal aliens who are willing to work for really low wages putting him out of work. I'll leave it at that

How is that fair to our own men and women such as Peregrine's boy?

It's not fair, but that is the nature of competition. Would it be any more fair for a legal US citizen who dropped out of HS and is willing to take a low wage to take the job? It's always unfortunate when someone loses their job and I would never wish that on anyone but the work environment is a competitive place. And if the immigrants were not there then there would be someone who is willing to take a low wage. The problem is not immigrants, if they weren't accepting lower wages, someone else would.

For me this has nothing to do with immigrants. Just illegal immigrants. If immigrants are legal... a big thumbs up because, hey basically, we are all immigrants. Having said that, I don't blame the illegals either, since the government seems to be talking out of both sides of it's twisted mouth:We don't want you if you're illegal but you can work here and pay taxes.

I don't have anything bad to say about legal immigrants that respect our system and enter it honestly..and your right we are all immigrants...many of our parents and grandparents came from foreign countries and did it legally.

HotParadox wrote:First of all, Hi thomasjay!!!

Anyways, as far as what B said here:

Big Slick wrote:Not even the same thing. They did not obtain the money through an illegal act. Working for a living is not an illegal act.

My only problem with that is they sort of did obtain the money illegally, since they are here illegally. Which brings us right back to the question: Why is the government letting them work and pay taxes if they are that loathe to illegal aliens?

Peregrine wrote:Tell my son, who works in construction, why its alright for construction companies to take on illegal aliens who are willing to work for really low wages putting him out of work. I'll leave it at that

How is that fair to our own men and women such as Peregrine's boy?

Good morning HP
I had never heard of the alternative number they mention here

Undocumented immigrants who are not eligible for a Social Security number can file tax returns with an alternative number. A House-passed version of the economic recovery bill and one making its way through the Senate would allow anyone with such a number, called an individual taxpayer identification number, to qualify for the tax credits.

I know H1-Bs and other documented foreign workers file under a non-social security number, but illegals? If they're applying for and recieving an id number doesn't that mean they're documented? Incidentally I think abuse of the H1-B program and outsourcing is a much bigger problem than 'illegals'.

HP wrote:

Peregrine wrote:Tell my son, who works in construction, why its alright for construction companies to take on illegal aliens who are willing to work for really low wages putting him out of work. I'll leave it at that

How is that fair to our own men and women such as Peregrine's boy?

It's not fair at all. But rather than misplacing the resentment against the undocumenteds who are taking the jobs, we direct it at the greedy business owners who employ them so they don't have to pay Americans a living wage and any sort of benefits?
I was in heavy-highway construction for just shy of 25 years, mostly in project management for pretty large companies but I also had my own mid-sized company for five of those years. Most of my work was federal and state so either 100% union, or under the Davis-Bacon Act where everyone has to pay the local union wage & equivalent in benefits on the project. Undocumenteds weren't common but some companies would lowball smaller county and municipal jobs and play all kinds of tricks to get away with not paying American employees what they were supposed to.

I don't know what sort of construction Peregrines son does. When I did hear of construction companies getting busted for undocumenteds, it was always building trades like framing, roofing etc. And the workers weren't the sterotyped Mexicans, they were Polish, Greek and Southeast Asian. The Mexicans are out cutting grass and picking crabs for wages no American would accept.

Sorry to ramble. I guess my advice for Peregrines son would be if you see somebody using illegals, report it. If your employer cheats you on overtime, report it. And if you have a chance to organize, do it. 'Right to Work' is greedy business doublespeak for 'Right to Exploit' in my experience.

Illegal or not, my point is not that low paying jobs are being taken by illegal immigrants only. It seems some people have a problem with illegal immigrants taking low paying jobs and forcing citizens out of work but they're ok with legal immigrants (whether they're citizens or not) taking these low paying jobs and forcing citizens out of a job. That doesn't make any sense. If I lost my job to someone because they were willing to accept a lower wage for doing the same job, I would be upset. I wouldn't care if it were an illegal immigrant, legal one or a robot. I'm still out of a job.

My point is, it's not immigrants that are the problem. Legal or Illegal is irrelevant. If it's not an immigrant it will be a lower educated citizen. Or they will find a way to automate it and a robot will take their place. It's a product of the market. Producers are always looking for way to keep costs down, it doesn't matter how.

But it seems convienient to blame illegal immigrants when they're not the problem, they're just an easy target. They're just trying to make a living just like everybody else. And if they are paying taxes, just like everyone else, then they should get the tax benefits, just like everyone else.

thomasjay wrote:

HotParadox wrote:First of all, Hi thomasjay!!!

Anyways, as far as what B said here:

Big Slick wrote:Not even the same thing. They did not obtain the money through an illegal act. Working for a living is not an illegal act.

My only problem with that is they sort of did obtain the money illegally, since they are here illegally. Which brings us right back to the question: Why is the government letting them work and pay taxes if they are that loathe to illegal aliens?

Peregrine wrote:Tell my son, who works in construction, why its alright for construction companies to take on illegal aliens who are willing to work for really low wages putting him out of work. I'll leave it at that

How is that fair to our own men and women such as Peregrine's boy?

Good morning HP
I had never heard of the alternative number they mention here

Undocumented immigrants who are not eligible for a Social Security number can file tax returns with an alternative number. A House-passed version of the economic recovery bill and one making its way through the Senate would allow anyone with such a number, called an individual taxpayer identification number, to qualify for the tax credits.

I know H1-Bs and other documented foreign workers file under a non-social security number, but illegals? If they're applying for and recieving an id number doesn't that mean they're documented? Incidentally I think abuse of the H1-B program and outsourcing is a much bigger problem than 'illegals'.

HP wrote:

Peregrine wrote:Tell my son, who works in construction, why its alright for construction companies to take on illegal aliens who are willing to work for really low wages putting him out of work. I'll leave it at that

How is that fair to our own men and women such as Peregrine's boy?

It's not fair at all. But rather than misplacing the resentment against the undocumenteds who are taking the jobs, we direct it at the greedy business owners who employ them so they don't have to pay Americans a living wage and any sort of benefits?
I was in heavy-highway construction for just shy of 25 years, mostly in project management for pretty large companies but I also had my own mid-sized company for five of those years. Most of my work was federal and state so either 100% union, or under the Davis-Bacon Act where everyone has to pay the local union wage & equivalent in benefits on the project. Undocumenteds weren't common but some companies would lowball smaller county and municipal jobs and play all kinds of tricks to get away with not paying American employees what they were supposed to.

I don't know what sort of construction Peregrines son does. When I did hear of construction companies getting busted for undocumenteds, it was always building trades like framing, roofing etc. And the workers weren't the sterotyped Mexicans, they were Polish, Greek and Southeast Asian. The Mexicans are out cutting grass and picking crabs for wages no American would accept.

Sorry to ramble. I guess my advice for Peregrines son would be if you see somebody using illegals, report it. If your employer cheats you on overtime, report it. And if you have a chance to organize, do it. 'Right to Work' is greedy business doublespeak for 'Right to Exploit' in my experience.

Thank you for rambling, tj, and I'm glad you did. You brilliantly explained to me what happens after step one (illegal aliens find their way into the country) and that is, if I understand you correctly, once the illegal makes it into the country, the collective scum hiring them take total monetary advantage of the illegal status and, in the process, perform an act of coitus on our own citizens. Sickening.

Good advice to Peregrine's son that I will pass on to my own boys and girl.

Thanks tj.
Hot

The problem we have around here is they get stolen ss numbers and use others identity to get work. I have a friend that works at a meat packing plant nearby who told me he was in the office turning in some doctors note and trying to get his Workman's comp papers filled out when they called for somebody to come to the office. While he was filling out his paperwork one person came in saying he was the one they'd called. And that struck him as odd because the guy was Mexican and couldn't speak anything but Spanish and the name wasn't one you'd think a Mexican person would have. While he was contemplating this 4 others showed up claiming to be the person they had called, and he heard the human resources lady say how do you have the same social security number.

Maybe a lot of problems would get fixed if we made it harder for them to get these identities, and crack down on the employers who don't freakin check such things. JMO

Big Slick wrote:Illegal or not, my point is not that low paying jobs are being taken by illegal immigrants only. It seems some people have a problem with illegal immigrants taking low paying jobs and forcing citizens out of work but they're ok with legal immigrants (whether they're citizens or not) taking these low paying jobs and forcing citizens out of a job. That doesn't make any sense. If I lost my job to someone because they were willing to accept a lower wage for doing the same job, I would be upset. I wouldn't care if it were an illegal immigrant, legal one or a robot. I'm still out of a job.

I understand how you feel on a personal (to you) level. What you're saying is, correct me if I misunderstand, if it affects you and your wallet you are out of a job regardless of the source. On a socioeconomic level, I think it does become a problem because collectively, illegals are taking food out of the mouths of legal immigrants and citizens. Countries have laws and they are there to protect its' citizens, ultimately. Illegals are outside of the law. It is upsetting to lose your job to someone who is legal and willing to do the same job for a lesser wage, I agree. But that is not breaking a particular law. That is more a case of working for an employer who is a greedy, unscrupulous opportunist.

My point is, it's not immigrants that are the problem. Legal or Illegal is irrelevant. If it's not an immigrant it will be a lower educated citizen. Or they will find a way to automate it and a robot will take their place. It's a product of the market. Producers are always looking for way to keep costs down, it doesn't matter how.

But it seems convienient to blame illegal immigrants when they're not the problem, they're just an easy target. They're just trying to make a living just like everybody else. And if they are paying taxes, just like everyone else, then they should get the tax benefits, just like everyone else.

B, do you know what the law is that says illegals pay taxes? I don't know what it is and if I understand tj correctly, neither does he. You could be correct; it could be that neither of us are privy to it. Let me know; I'm curious.

Anyways...Spot on; I couldn't agree more. The problem absolutely goes beyond the illegals yet they are getting most of the blame.

Thanks for a great post, B.

CarolinaHound wrote:The problem we have around here is they get stolen ss numbers and use others identity to get work. I have a friend that works at a meat packing plant nearby who told me he was in the office turning in some doctors note and trying to get his Workman's comp papers filled out when they called for somebody to come to the office. While he was filling out his paperwork one person came in saying he was the one they'd called. And that struck him as odd because the guy was Mexican and couldn't speak anything but Spanish and the name wasn't one you'd think a Mexican person would have. While he was contemplating this 4 others showed up claiming to be the person they had called, and he heard the human resources lady say how do you have the same social security number.

Maybe a lot of problems would get fixed if we made it harder for them to get these identities, and crack down on the employers who don't freakin check such things. JMO

Yikes, doggieboy. Well, that just comes down to more than a person who is willing to do almost anything to get a job but, rather, to a person who is willing do the most despicable of things do obtain a job and that is steal someone's identity; plus, put in a claim for workers' comp, for which the taxpayers ultimately pay. Catch them, boot them out and throw away the key, imo.

Catch them, boot them out and throw away the key, imo.
HotParadox

I echo that 100%

I still say an open season on them at the border, The government rents out full auto weapons that can only be used at the border, and slap on one heck of a tax when the gun is rented, plus one when the illegal is tagged. Government get money, us NRA guys get to shoot machine guns legally, the border crossing is slowed down... everybody is happy. Cept those crossing the border, but ya just can't please everybody.









Just joking.













Really I am.

First of all, hounddog, you are speaking of fraud. If you are making false claims for unemployment you are commiting fraud and you should be subject to the law. People do this all the time who are full blown, good ol red blooded 'merican citizens. Criminals come in all walks of life and are not just illegal immigrants. Those criminals you speak of just so happen to be immigrants.

HotParadox wrote:What you're saying is, correct me if I misunderstand, if it affects you and your wallet you are out of a job regardless of the source. On a socioeconomic level, I think it does become a problem because collectively, illegals are taking food out of the mouths of legal immigrants and citizens....Illegals are outside of the law. It is upsetting to lose your job to someone who is legal and willing to do the same job for a lesser wage, I agree. But that is not breaking a particular law. That is more a case of working for an employer who is a greedy, unscrupulous opportunist.

Yea. If you lose your job to anyone, it sucks and I feel bad for you. And I disagree about illegals being outside the law. If they commit a crime they will and should be arrested and punished accordingly. And that includes tax evasion.

As far as your socioeconomic point, I think you are right on a small scale. If you look at it from a much larger scale and take the personal feelings out, it looks quite different. Let me see if I can explain this without rambling too much...

You have a pool that the national workforce is in. In that pool you have people of all education levels and skills. That pool is what keeps the US economy running. All products and services base their prices partly on the wages they pay into that pool.

Companies are constantly trying to pay the lowest possible amount in costs, this includes wages. Otherwise, they have to pass those additional costs onto the consumer. There is a segment of the population who are willing to accept low wage, hard labor jobs that do not produce a significant amount of revenue. The way it happens, a lot of the times these jobs are filled with the uneducated, and the immigrants who just want work and they don't care what it is.

I'll use a lawn service as an example. Let's say a lawn service wants to charge you $30 to cut your lawn. That sounds fairly reasonable. The company is able to charge this because the labor they use doesn't cost any more than minimum wage. If they paid more they would have to charge you say $80 to cut your lawn. Now they have priced themselves out of a job. That company eventually goes out of business and therefore doesn't contribute to the GNP of the country. Compund that nationwide and our economy goes under.

Same thing happens with labor unions. Labor unions are good for workers but bad for companies and bad for economies. You end up with over paid employees which leads to overpriced products and bad news for the company. Look at the auto companies right now. A lot of their problems stem from overpaid employees.

On a small scale it's just a constant cycle. I'll use Peregrine's son as an example since it was brought up. P don't take offense I'm not saying anything bad about your son.

Ok, so he works in construction. One day he loses his job to a lower wage worker. It sucks for him and it affects people around him but eventually he will go out and find another job. Maybe he takes the place of someone who was paid more. It is a cycle. The working force keeps working and that, in turn, keeps the economy running.

You might not realize it but some of those 'illegals' make it possible for everybody to live at decent lifestyle, because if you didn't have that segment of the pool (which happens to include illegal immigrants) you would things either start to rise in price or it will get outsourced to another country. So in a way you need that segment of the pool in order to keep money circulating and helping our GNP.

B, do you know what the law is that says illegals pay taxes? I don't know what it is and if I understand tj correctly, neither does he. You could be correct; it could be that neither of us are privy to it. Let me know; I'm curious.

No, I have no idea what the law says. I was simply going off of what the article said.

It's a fraud created for the soul purpose for illegals to illegally get a job that should have gone to a legal citizen. What about those that do it right, go through the system and get their citizenship legally? It's more a slap in their face than it is to us that have been born here. And I know plenty of people who were born and raised in the US that will do, do do, and need the jobs you say Americans won't do. So no I don't buy the argument that you can't get Americans to do those jobs for the same pay. When you're broke and your kids need food you'll do whatever, even crawl in a septic tank or pick cabbage for little or no money to get them a few scraps of food.

CarolinaHound wrote:I still say an open season on them at the border, The government rents out full auto weapons that can only be used at the border, and slap on one heck of a tax when the gun is rented, plus one when the illegal is tagged. Government get money, us NRA guys get to shoot machine guns legally, the border crossing is slowed down... everybody is happy. Cept those crossing the border, but ya just can't please everybody.









Just joking.













Really I am.

I believe you doggieboy, which kinda scares me.

HotParadox wrote:

CarolinaHound wrote:I still say an open season on them at the border, The government rents out full auto weapons that can only be used at the border, and slap on one heck of a tax when the gun is rented, plus one when the illegal is tagged. Government get money, us NRA guys get to shoot machine guns legally, the border crossing is slowed down... everybody is happy. Cept those crossing the border, but ya just can't please everybody.









Just joking.













Really I am.

I believe you doggieboy, which kinda scares me.

Really, I was just joking. There's really only been two people I really wanted to and came close to shooting. And neither were from mexico.

HotParadox wrote:What you're saying is, correct me if I misunderstand, if it affects you and your wallet you are out of a job regardless of the source. On a socioeconomic level, I think it does become a problem because collectively, illegals are taking food out of the mouths of legal immigrants and citizens....Illegals are outside of the law. It is upsetting to lose your job to someone who is legal and willing to do the same job for a lesser wage, I agree. But that is not breaking a particular law. That is more a case of working for an employer who is a greedy, unscrupulous opportunist.

Big Slick wrote:Yea. If you lose your job to anyone, it sucks and I feel bad for you. And I disagree about illegals being outside the law. If they commit a crime they will and should be arrested and punished accordingly. And that includes tax evasion.

I should have been more clear, B. I meant they were living here illegally and that is against the law. I didn't mean that if they steal, for instance, they go scott free. Sorry for the confusion. So, yes; I agree with you.

HotParadox wrote:B, do you know what the law is that says illegals pay taxes? I don't know what it is and if I understand tj correctly, neither does he. You could be correct; it could be that neither of us are privy to it. Let me know; I'm curious.

Big Slick wrote:No, I have no idea what the law says. I was simply going off of what the article said.

Ah, got it!

Thanks for a great post, B. I appreciate the time you put into it and you cleared up a lot for me.

Here is good link.

http://www.topix.com/us-senate/blanche-lincoln/2008/10/just-one-state-californias-illegal-immigrant-problem-is-all-our-problem

The link says it all.

howdy wrote:Here is good link.

http://www.topix.com/us-senate/blanche-lincoln/2008/10/just-one-state-californias-illegal-immigrant-problem-is-all-our-problem

The link says it all.

Thanks for that link, howdy. Much appreciated.

CarolinaHound wrote:

HotParadox wrote:

CarolinaHound wrote:I still say an open season on them at the border, The government rents out full auto weapons that can only be used at the border, and slap on one heck of a tax when the gun is rented, plus one when the illegal is tagged. Government get money, us NRA guys get to shoot machine guns legally, the border crossing is slowed down... everybody is happy. Cept those crossing the border, but ya just can't please everybody.









Just joking.













Really I am.

I believe you doggieboy, which kinda scares me.

Really, I was just joking. There's really only been two people I really wanted to and came close to shooting. And neither were from mexico.

Let me guess. Were they females, same last name as yours, not your Mum, not your sister, not your daughter (if you had one) not your Aunty and not your Nana, per chance?

Nope, actually, one was my ex's new mother-in-law at the time. My daughter saw her mother in a restraunt and went over to say hi. And the old hag proceeded to calling my daughter a b***h among other things. She was lucky I won't there. I'd most likely be awaiting an injection or have already had it by now.

The other was a fella that just seemed to have a boner for suicide, or just lacked the sense to know when to quit.

CarolinaHound wrote:Nope, actually, one was my ex's new mother-in-law at the time. My daughter saw her mother in a restraunt and went over to say hi. And the old hag proceeded to calling my daughter a b***h among other things. She was lucky I won't there. I'd most likely be awaiting an injection or have already had it by now.

The other was a fella that just seemed to have a boner for suicide, or just lacked the sense to know when to quit.

That sucks, doggieboy when someone hurts your child. I didn't know you had a daddy's little princess. I thought you only had boys.

HotParadox wrote:

CarolinaHound wrote:Nope, actually, one was my ex's new mother-in-law at the time. My daughter saw her mother in a restraunt and went over to say hi. And the old hag proceeded to calling my daughter a b***h among other things. She was lucky I won't there. I'd most likely be awaiting an injection or have already had it by now.

The other was a fella that just seemed to have a boner for suicide, or just lacked the sense to know when to quit.

That sucks, doggieboy when someone hurts your child. I didn't know you had a daddy's little princess. I thought you only had boys.

Nope got one of each.. don't think I got anymore runnin round anyway. My daughter is 18 and my boy is 9. One plays bass and one is learning keyboard and clairanet. Might have to have another so I'll have a drummer.



Hell no. I'm finally working out of the child support payments. lol

I have been reading this entire thread. Don't know why but it kind of amuses me. I just happen to live in a town that that does not want the masjority of it's workers living here and has made it so expensive that they can't. A good majority of them live in Idaho just across the border.

Let me tell you a little about the illegal immigrants here. I see them every day, my wife works in a placed that could not stay in business without them. Most of them work at two jobs. Not to make a better living for them self but to send back to Mexico to help bring more of their kind here. They go to the hospital clinic for their medcal care. 95 percent of them don't speak english and have to have another person translate for them. They lie and say they are not working in order to get free care paid for by tax payers. A lot of those that work in the hotel industry here will steal from both the guest and the hotel. If they are caught they are deported and return in a couple of weeks under a different name and work in a different hotel or restaurant. Most of them don't have any insurance on their cars and can't even read a one way sign. And their drivers licence as well as their socioal security card id fake.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Please do not tell me it isn't so because I live here and see it every day. Just about all of the stores big and small as well as restaurants and hotels could not last without them as not that many white workder live close enough to get here. And they are not low paid either, in some cases they make more than white people. Most tourists come here for the first time and think that theyare in mexico.

The INS came in once and raided the whole town and cleaned them all out. For about 3 weeks you could not find anybody to work at all. Several business had to close down because of it. Now with the eonomic slow down we have here are more of the whtie race here trying to find jobs and that includes places like Macdonalds and Wendys that have always been predominatly mexican workers.

Here are some business that had to close because they could not get anybody but illegals to work. Dsennys--Burger King--Kentucky Fried Chicken Just to name a few. It wasn't for lack of business it was because of the low quality of the help.

So if you really want to know what Illegals can do to a community? Try living in one for a while and having to work there as well.

There it is. Ot's living it. Who am I to criticize his post?

Reading OT's post shows why many years ago we should of worked hard to control this problem. I don't think anyone is against people coming from Mexico to work. As long as it is controlled. Using temporary visas, and the such. Had we worked to control this, what OT mentioned in his post would not happen.
I have seen the stories of when INS raids a town, and clears out the illegals. It can cause a crisis in said towns economy. This being said we cannot allow unfettered access to our country.

What is going on today with the illegal immigration is insane.

The thing is none of what is going on today with the illegal immigrants would be going on had we taken the issue seriously many years ago. Now the only way to solve this is going to cause a lot of pain for us, and the illegals who came here.

When you live in absolute poverty, and America is easy to get into I can't blame them for coming here. It is really not their fault. We opened the door, and never closed it. Had we put controls on this, both our countries would be much better off. Just think if we allowed workers in for say six months, than after that period of time they had to go back to Mexico. First they would be going back to their country and spending money there. Thus greatly helping their economy. Second we would know who is here any how many. Third towns would have never become completely dependent on the illegal labour. So those towns would not suffer economic damage after a raid.

We cannot continue with turning a blind eye to illegal immigration. We cannot ignore the issue, and hope the problem goes away.

That makes a lot of sense, howdy.

It does make sense, but unfortunately that would just give them time to get new id's and disappear. And not disappear back to Mexico, but rather a different town with someone else's identity.

CarolinaHound wrote:It does make sense, but unfortunately that would just give them time to get new id's and disappear. And not disappear back to Mexico, but rather a different town with someone else's identity.

Sure there would be some who would do that. Though had we put controls on this. It really would not be an issue. Many would of followed the law. We never enforced any of the laws we have. Sure some would of stayed here illegally. Though no were near the numbers we have today. We created this by turning a blind eye. So with this post to me you are saying there is nothing we can do about it. I could not disagree more. We can do something. How about enforcing our laws. Think if Mexico had the same amount of Americans coming to their country as we do ours. How would that affect their country?

Time to enforce our laws.

Being an American means something, it means a lot. Those who come here illegal have no desire to become American. They are Mexican and will not stop being Mexican.

There are people from Mexico that immigrated who followed the law. People who wanted to become an American. The illegals do not. They refuse to speak our language. To accept our ways. They refuse to become American.

The time has come to get these SOB's the hell out of our country. They don't belong here.

howdy wrote:

CarolinaHound wrote:It does make sense, but unfortunately that would just give them time to get new id's and disappear. And not disappear back to Mexico, but rather a different town with someone else's identity.

Sure there would be some who would do that. Though had we put controls on this. It really would not be an issue. Many would of followed the law. We never enforced any of the laws we have. Sure some would of stayed here illegally. Though no were near the numbers we have today. We created this by turning a blind eye. So with this post to me you are saying there is nothing we can do about it. I could not disagree more. We can do something. How about enforcing our laws. Think if Mexico had the same amount of Americans coming to their country as we do ours. How would that affect their country?

Time to enforce our laws.

Being an American means something, it means a lot. Those who come here illegal have no desire to become American. They are Mexican and will not stop being Mexican.

There are people from Mexico that immigrated who followed the law. People who wanted to become an American. The illegals do not. They refuse to speak our language. To accept our ways. They refuse to become American.

The time has come to get these SOB's the hell out of our country. They don't belong here.

I agree. Time to actually enforce the laws.

CarolinaHound wrote:

howdy wrote:

CarolinaHound wrote:It does make sense, but unfortunately that would just give them time to get new id's and disappear. And not disappear back to Mexico, but rather a different town with someone else's identity.

Sure there would be some who would do that. Though had we put controls on this. It really would not be an issue. Many would of followed the law. We never enforced any of the laws we have. Sure some would of stayed here illegally. Though no were near the numbers we have today. We created this by turning a blind eye. So with this post to me you are saying there is nothing we can do about it. I could not disagree more. We can do something. How about enforcing our laws. Think if Mexico had the same amount of Americans coming to their country as we do ours. How would that affect their country?

Time to enforce our laws.

Being an American means something, it means a lot. Those who come here illegal have no desire to become American. They are Mexican and will not stop being Mexican.

There are people from Mexico that immigrated who followed the law. People who wanted to become an American. The illegals do not. They refuse to speak our language. To accept our ways. They refuse to become American.

The time has come to get these SOB's the hell out of our country. They don't belong here.

I agree. Time to actually enforce the laws.

That is correct. The people who get hurt the most from our not enforcing the laws, are the people from Mexico who came here legally. The people who followed the law. The people who only wanted to become an American. The people who would fight and die for what this county stands for. The people who came here legally look at the flag, and they know what it means. They understand. The people who come here illegally could care less about what this country stands for. I know a lot of people who immigrated from Mexico legally. Let me tell you they are friggin really angry about illegal immigration.