the speech

HotParadox wrote:here's an interesting article on your topic, ot:
http://www.americansfortheconstitution.com/voice-of-the-people/obama-the-muslim

HotParadox wrote:here's an interesting article on your topic, ot:
http://www.americansfortheconstitution.com/voice-of-the-people/obama-the-muslim

Big Slick wrote:Personally I don't see what the problem is. I think it's a good thing that he is trying to repair relationships with the middle eastern countries. It is foolish to think we can keep making more enemies over there and then wonder why they don't cooperate with us in times of crises. Haven't you ever heard you catch more flies with honey than vinegar?

In my opinion we need to keep trying to bury the hatchet with all of our former enemies. That includes Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, all of them.

I don't get why it's soooooo 'merican and patriotic to keep making enemies at every turn. All we're doing is digging our own grave. We absolutely need to be making peace with all of the Muslim countries. The US can not continue down this ignorant path of perpepuating hatred. We are going to end up alienating ourselves until it's just us and Israel against the rest of the world.

Ignorant Americans need to put their bible thumping discrimination aside and start seeing the bigger picture. We're supposed to be the leader of the free world, not the bully of the freeworld. It's time we start acting like it.

Big Slick wrote:

HotParadox wrote:here's an interesting article on your topic, ot:
http://www.americansfortheconstitution.com/voice-of-the-people/obama-the-muslim

HP, OT - Parden my language, but this article is bullshit!!!

I won't even get into whether or not he is or is not actually a muslim. My problem with this is, does it matter? Are we as Americans so ignorant that we have to vote for a Christian President? I'm sorry I must have missed the part in the Constitution about one of the qualifications to run for president is that you have to be a Christian. It doesn't matter if someone is Muslim, Hindu, Buddist, or Athiest for that matter. Would you be upset if you went for a job interview and they asked you what religion you were. Oh you're a Christian, sorry we don't employ Christians.

C'mon people wake up this is the same thing as saying he shouldn't be in office because he's black. No difference.

HotParadox wrote:

Big Slick wrote:

HotParadox wrote:here's an interesting article on your topic, ot:
http://www.americansfortheconstitution.com/voice-of-the-people/obama-the-muslim

HP, OT - Parden my language, but this article is bullshit!!!

I won't even get into whether or not he is or is not actually a muslim. My problem with this is, does it matter? Are we as Americans so ignorant that we have to vote for a Christian President? I'm sorry I must have missed the part in the Constitution about one of the qualifications to run for president is that you have to be a Christian. It doesn't matter if someone is Muslim, Hindu, Buddist, or Athiest for that matter. Would you be upset if you went for a job interview and they asked you what religion you were. Oh you're a Christian, sorry we don't employ Christians.

C'mon people wake up this is the same thing as saying he shouldn't be in office because he's black. No difference.

wait, bs!
i made no comment whatsoever on the article other than:
"here's an interesting article on your topic, ot".

i also made no comment, nada, regarding our president, one's race, sexual orientation, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Buddists, Athiests or anything else you referred to.

but i'll answer you anyway:i don't care what you are or who you are. if you're a decent, honest person you're cool with me. if you're my president, i also could give a rat's ass, as long as your a good one.

Big Slick wrote:

HotParadox wrote:

Big Slick wrote:

HotParadox wrote:here's an interesting article on your topic, ot:
http://www.americansfortheconstitution.com/voice-of-the-people/obama-the-muslim

HP, OT - Parden my language, but this article is bullshit!!!

I won't even get into whether or not he is or is not actually a muslim. My problem with this is, does it matter? Are we as Americans so ignorant that we have to vote for a Christian President? I'm sorry I must have missed the part in the Constitution about one of the qualifications to run for president is that you have to be a Christian. It doesn't matter if someone is Muslim, Hindu, Buddist, or Athiest for that matter. Would you be upset if you went for a job interview and they asked you what religion you were. Oh you're a Christian, sorry we don't employ Christians.

C'mon people wake up this is the same thing as saying he shouldn't be in office because he's black. No difference.

wait, bs!
i made no comment whatsoever on the article other than:
"here's an interesting article on your topic, ot".

i also made no comment, nada, regarding our president, one's race, sexual orientation, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Buddists, Athiests or anything else you referred to.

but i'll answer you anyway:i don't care what you are or who you are. if you're a decent, honest person you're cool with me. if you're my president, i also could give a rat's ass, as long as your a good one.

HP, my comments were aimed at the article not you. I addressed you because you posted it. I wasn't saying you are bs. The article is BS and my reason for thinking that.

Sorry if I led you to believe it was directed at you personally.

HotParadox wrote:

Big Slick wrote:

HotParadox wrote:

Big Slick wrote:

HotParadox wrote:here's an interesting article on your topic, ot:
http://www.americansfortheconstitution.com/voice-of-the-people/obama-the-muslim

HP, OT - Parden my language, but this article is bullshit!!!

I won't even get into whether or not he is or is not actually a muslim. My problem with this is, does it matter? Are we as Americans so ignorant that we have to vote for a Christian President? I'm sorry I must have missed the part in the Constitution about one of the qualifications to run for president is that you have to be a Christian. It doesn't matter if someone is Muslim, Hindu, Buddist, or Athiest for that matter. Would you be upset if you went for a job interview and they asked you what religion you were. Oh you're a Christian, sorry we don't employ Christians.

C'mon people wake up this is the same thing as saying he shouldn't be in office because he's black. No difference.

wait, bs!
i made no comment whatsoever on the article other than:
"here's an interesting article on your topic, ot".

i also made no comment, nada, regarding our president, one's race, sexual orientation, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Buddists, Athiests or anything else you referred to.

but i'll answer you anyway:i don't care what you are or who you are. if you're a decent, honest person you're cool with me. if you're my president, i also could give a rat's ass, as long as your a good one.

HP, my comments were aimed at the article not you. I addressed you because you posted it. I wasn't saying you are bs. The article is BS and my reason for thinking that.

Sorry if I led you to believe it was directed at you personally.

totally understand and i get your points, too.

Old Timer wrote:

HotParadox wrote:

Big Slick wrote:

HotParadox wrote:

Big Slick wrote:

HotParadox wrote:here's an interesting article on your topic, ot:
http://www.americansfortheconstitution.com/voice-of-the-people/obama-the-muslim

HP, OT - Parden my language, but this article is bullshit!!!

I won't even get into whether or not he is or is not actually a muslim. My problem with this is, does it matter? Are we as Americans so ignorant that we have to vote for a Christian President? I'm sorry I must have missed the part in the Constitution about one of the qualifications to run for president is that you have to be a Christian. It doesn't matter if someone is Muslim, Hindu, Buddist, or Athiest for that matter. Would you be upset if you went for a job interview and they asked you what religion you were. Oh you're a Christian, sorry we don't employ Christians.

C'mon people wake up this is the same thing as saying he shouldn't be in office because he's black. No difference.

wait, bs!
i made no comment whatsoever on the article other than:
"here's an interesting article on your topic, ot".

i also made no comment, nada, regarding our president, one's race, sexual orientation, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Buddists, Athiests or anything else you referred to.

but i'll answer you anyway:i don't care what you are or who you are. if you're a decent, honest person you're cool with me. if you're my president, i also could give a rat's ass, as long as your a good one.

HP, my comments were aimed at the article not you. I addressed you because you posted it. I wasn't saying you are bs. The article is BS and my reason for thinking that.

Sorry if I led you to believe it was directed at you personally.

totally understand and i get your points, too.

But when the then Gov. of Utah Gov Romney who is a mormon tried to run for President all folks could say was who wants a mormon for president. And he is more qualified for the job IMHO.
But one question if I may, if obama is kissing arab ass and brown nosing, how are we gonna be able to tell with out the brown ring aroung his nose. It seems that you would not be able to see it.

And where is this transparent government and those million of jobs just to name a few. Aint gonna happen is it.

It is simple. I don't like him, he isn't quailified and never should have been elected. We are going to pay a heavy price for that.

Old Timer wrote:

And where is this transparent government and those million of jobs just to name a few. Aint gonna happen is it.

It is simple. I don't like him, he isn't quailified and never should have been elected. We are going to pay a heavy price for that.

Big Slick wrote:What makes you think he is lying? Because his dad is from Kenya? Because he bows to the Saudi King? If that's what you're basing your opinion on, then you need to pull your head out of your ass and stop believing the rants coming out of the Obama hater camps.

I have seen nothing that even remotely indicates he is lying about being Muslim. Remember that first controversy about his pastor? He told everybody he had been going to that (Christian) church and Wright had been his family's pastor for years and years. Maybe he refuses to address it because he knows how insignificant the issue is and he doesn't need to address it.

I saw a national enquirer the other day that was talking about his gay affair and the cover up. Should he come out and hold a press conference and tell people he's not gay? If he doesn't, will you say he's lying about being gay? No because it's stupid. There are more important things to worry about than what religion our president is.

So he bows to the Saudi King. So what? That is what you do in foreign relations. You accept their customs. Remember when Bush was holding the King's hand and leading him around Crawford? When diplomats go to Japan they bow to the emporer. Nobody says they're kissing the asses of the Japs because they bow to them. It's called respecting their customs. Presidents have been bowing to foreign leaders since they have been visiting foreign leaders.

Quit trying to make something out of nothing.

Old Timer wrote:

Big Slick wrote:What makes you think he is lying? Because his dad is from Kenya? Because he bows to the Saudi King? If that's what you're basing your opinion on, then you need to pull your head out of your ass and stop believing the rants coming out of the Obama hater camps.

I have seen nothing that even remotely indicates he is lying about being Muslim. Remember that first controversy about his pastor? He told everybody he had been going to that (Christian) church and Wright had been his family's pastor for years and years. Maybe he refuses to address it because he knows how insignificant the issue is and he doesn't need to address it.

I saw a national enquirer the other day that was talking about his gay affair and the cover up. Should he come out and hold a press conference and tell people he's not gay? If he doesn't, will you say he's lying about being gay? No because it's stupid. There are more important things to worry about than what religion our president is.

So he bows to the Saudi King. So what? That is what you do in foreign relations. You accept their customs. Remember when Bush was holding the King's hand and leading him around Crawford? When diplomats go to Japan they bow to the emporer. Nobody says they're kissing the asses of the Japs because they bow to them. It's called respecting their customs. Presidents have been bowing to foreign leaders since they have been visiting foreign leaders.

Quit trying to make something out of nothing.

I believe nothing of what I read and only half of what I see myself. I do however rely on my own instincts. Please do not tell me what to believe or not to believe and I will not tell you where to go. Each of us are entitled to make up our own mind in our own way. If you cannot handle that then you have a problem. I do not tell or advise anyone how or what to believe that is their own decision. All I ask is the same respect.

Big Slick wrote:

Old Timer wrote:

Big Slick wrote:What makes you think he is lying? Because his dad is from Kenya? Because he bows to the Saudi King? If that's what you're basing your opinion on, then you need to pull your head out of your ass and stop believing the rants coming out of the Obama hater camps.

I have seen nothing that even remotely indicates he is lying about being Muslim. Remember that first controversy about his pastor? He told everybody he had been going to that (Christian) church and Wright had been his family's pastor for years and years. Maybe he refuses to address it because he knows how insignificant the issue is and he doesn't need to address it.

I saw a national enquirer the other day that was talking about his gay affair and the cover up. Should he come out and hold a press conference and tell people he's not gay? If he doesn't, will you say he's lying about being gay? No because it's stupid. There are more important things to worry about than what religion our president is.

So he bows to the Saudi King. So what? That is what you do in foreign relations. You accept their customs. Remember when Bush was holding the King's hand and leading him around Crawford? When diplomats go to Japan they bow to the emporer. Nobody says they're kissing the asses of the Japs because they bow to them. It's called respecting their customs. Presidents have been bowing to foreign leaders since they have been visiting foreign leaders.

Quit trying to make something out of nothing.

I believe nothing of what I read and only half of what I see myself. I do however rely on my own instincts. Please do not tell me what to believe or not to believe and I will not tell you where to go. Each of us are entitled to make up our own mind in our own way. If you cannot handle that then you have a problem. I do not tell or advise anyone how or what to believe that is their own decision. All I ask is the same respect.

So again, I ask you - What makes you believe he's lying?

Sounds like above you're saying "I think he's lying, just cause."

Big Slick wrote:Like I said, I have seen nothing that would lead me to believe he is.

I am not going to assume something about somebody unless there is an actual reason. Which from twice now avoiding the question would tell me that you don't really have one.

CarolinaHound wrote:

Big Slick wrote:Like I said, I have seen nothing that would lead me to believe he is.

I am not going to assume something about somebody unless there is an actual reason. Which from twice now avoiding the question would tell me that you don't really have one.

He's a polatician, that right there tells me not to believe anything he says... just sayin'

Old Timer wrote:

CarolinaHound wrote:

Big Slick wrote:Like I said, I have seen nothing that would lead me to believe he is.

I am not going to assume something about somebody unless there is an actual reason. Which from twice now avoiding the question would tell me that you don't really have one.

He's a polatician, that right there tells me not to believe anything he says... just sayin'

Well Big slick, it seems our little debate will have to wait for a while. I have had a rather bad reaction to some new medicine and I just am not up to it at this time. But rest assured We shall continue when my health will allow.

Old Timer wrote:

CarolinaHound wrote:

Big Slick wrote:Like I said, I have seen nothing that would lead me to believe he is.

I am not going to assume something about somebody unless there is an actual reason. Which from twice now avoiding the question would tell me that you don't really have one.

He's a polatician, that right there tells me not to believe anything he says... just sayin'

Well Big slick, it seems our little debate will have to wait for a while. I have had a rather bad reaction to some new medicine and I just am not up to it at this time. But rest assured We shall continue when my health will allow.

Old Timer wrote:As I am a little better I would like to state my thoughts. I firmly do believe that obama is still a muslim and has not given up his faith. I also believe that this make him a plant. As far as his bowing goes, he had no choice. You say that it is correct protocol but I saw no return bow from the king which makes it a one way street. If one is a muslin amd believes in the Koran then he could never be president and here is why. Obama is going to take this great counhtry and lead it down to ruin and he already has a good start on it.

KORAN commands to kill infidels:

Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98

On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161

Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191

Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39

Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216
(different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

..... martyrs.... Enter heaven - Surah 3:140-43

If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. - 3:157-8

You must not think that those who were slain in the cause of Allah are dead. They are alive, and well-provided for by their Lord. - Surah 3:169-71

Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of God, whether he is slain or victorious, soon we shall give him a great reward. - Surah 4:74

Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil. - 4:76

But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. - 4:89

Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred, which shall endure till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will declare to them all that they have done. - 5:14

O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54

Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme - 8:39

O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. - 8:65

It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. - 8:67

Allah will humble the unbelievers. Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. - 9:2-3

When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5

Believers! Know that idolators are unclean. - 9:28

Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. - 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.

Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah, with your wealth and your persons. - 9:41

O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73

Allah has purchased of their faithful lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, kill and be killed. - 9:111

Fight unbelievers who are near to you. 9:123 (different translation:
Believers! Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you. (another source: ) Ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers....

As for those who are slain in the cause of Allah, He will not allow their works to perish. He will vouchsafe them guidance and ennoble their state; He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them. - 10:4-15

Allah has cursed the unbelievers and proposed for them a blazing hell. - 33:60

Unbelievers are enemies of Allah and they will roast in hell. - 41:14

When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4
(different translation: ) When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.

Those who are slain in the way of Allah - he will never let their deeds be lost. Soon will he guide them and improve their condition, and admit them to the Garden, which he has announced for them. - 47:5

Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. - 48:25

Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29

Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - 66:9

The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - 98:51

Fight them so that Allah may punish them at your hands, and put them to shame. (verse cited in Newsweek 2/11/02)

-------

Old Timer wrote:As I am a little better I would like to state my thoughts. I firmly do believe that obama is still a muslim and has not given up his faith. I also believe that this make him a plant. As far as his bowing goes, he had no choice. You say that it is correct protocol but I saw no return bow from the king which makes it a one way street. If one is a muslin amd believes in the Koran then he could never be president and here is why. Obama is going to take this great counhtry and lead it down to ruin and he already has a good start on it.

KORAN commands to kill infidels:

Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98

On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161

Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191

Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39

Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216
(different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

..... martyrs.... Enter heaven - Surah 3:140-43

If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. - 3:157-8

You must not think that those who were slain in the cause of Allah are dead. They are alive, and well-provided for by their Lord. - Surah 3:169-71

Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of God, whether he is slain or victorious, soon we shall give him a great reward. - Surah 4:74

Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil. - 4:76

But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. - 4:89

Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred, which shall endure till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will declare to them all that they have done. - 5:14

O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54

Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme - 8:39

O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. - 8:65

It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. - 8:67

Allah will humble the unbelievers. Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. - 9:2-3

When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5

Believers! Know that idolators are unclean. - 9:28

Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. - 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.

Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah, with your wealth and your persons. - 9:41

O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73

Allah has purchased of their faithful lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, kill and be killed. - 9:111

Fight unbelievers who are near to you. 9:123 (different translation:
Believers! Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you. (another source: ) Ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers....

As for those who are slain in the cause of Allah, He will not allow their works to perish. He will vouchsafe them guidance and ennoble their state; He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them. - 10:4-15

Allah has cursed the unbelievers and proposed for them a blazing hell. - 33:60

Unbelievers are enemies of Allah and they will roast in hell. - 41:14

When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4
(different translation: ) When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.

Those who are slain in the way of Allah - he will never let their deeds be lost. Soon will he guide them and improve their condition, and admit them to the Garden, which he has announced for them. - 47:5

Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. - 48:25

Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29

Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - 66:9

The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - 98:51

Fight them so that Allah may punish them at your hands, and put them to shame. (verse cited in Newsweek 2/11/02)

-------

CarolinaHound wrote:Now this is interesting Big Slick. Our own bible does talk about killing the non-believers. (I've only read parts of the Christian bible and none of the Quran) That boils down to using common sense when reading them. Some have common sense, some don't. I don't know about the Quran, but I do know the Christian bible was (1) Written by humans with all their flaws and tendencies to exaggerate and add to what God may have shown them. (2) The scriptures were picked through and put together by humans based on what they thought should be placed in the bible. Therefore in my opinion it's an incomplete book to begin with. (3) It's been translated God only knows how many times by humans with their tendencies to add, subtract and exaggerate on what they were translating. Not to mention, most translations of anything are prone to mistakes.

CarolinaHound wrote:I can only assume the same might be said for the Quran. Therefore it's not really a solid reason to assume Bambam is a Muslim. He was raised for a long while under the Muslim faith. And no matter how much he now believes in Christianity, the Muslim faith is still in his psyche, and no doubt he has sympathy toward that religion. That in it's self is not enough to say he shouldn't be president. Personally I don't think religion should even be a factor. But I can see where Ot thinks it should be.

CarolinaHound wrote:Fact is we are at war with a group of people who's faith is the reason we are at war with them. The terrorist are Muslim, and Muslims that believe we are infidels and should be slaughtered if we don't begin to worship alla. Not all Muslims feel this way, but the ones we are at war with do. If we were going through WW2 now, and fighting the Nazi's, I doubt a person who had spent much of his childhood raised in the Nazi party, would be elected prez. Even if he denounced most of what they stood for, but recognized their right to exist. It would still be said he or she were sympathetic to the Nazi way of life, and possibly even still believe in Nazism, (not sure if that's a word). For that reason alone I doubt he'd even be allowed to try to run much less become prez.

Anyway, just saying I can see that point of view. Now that I'm done rambling, I'll end with this, Bambam 's religious beliefs, where he was raised, and how, really have nothing to do with my feelings about him. I just think he's a lousy choice for prez, with a lot of bad ideas. He and his cronies in congress and the senate are trying to run things they know nothing about. They need to stay out of the business world and let the strong survive, and the weak fade into the past. They are printing way too much money, growing a deficit that our great grandkids will be paying for and digging a deeper hole for the economy. They are doing exactly what Bin Laden and the Jihadist want. They know they can't destroy us in battle, but destroy our economy and they destroy us. We are handing the terrorist the victory and they don't even need to fight.

O.K. I'm done with my rambling on. Carry on. Live long and prosper..etc..etc..

What you said is interesting because the way you interpret the bible depends on which side of the fence you stand on. You say it was written by humans. I would agree to this statement. However, it is a widely held Christian belief that these mere men were guided and inspired by the holy spirit and others. Therefore, that would make the writings divinely inspired and error free. But I don't think it can be both ways. Either it was written by mere men of their own accord, which would account for the many errors and contradictions, but that takes away the devine part of it and the book wouldn't be as powerful then. OR it was divinely inspired with no errors and what is in there is exactly what YHWH wanted to go in there. Then it makes you wonder why so many contradictions and multiple different accounts of the same events? This could be it's own thread in and of itself.

Good point, but on the other side of that coin I would say this is the very reason he is what need right now. Someone who, may not follow the faith, but at the very least recognizes their right to exist and is tolerable toward their beliefs. Someone who is versed in both is not really a bad thing. It's better than having a Bible thumping, Muslim hating, bigot in office.

We are at war with people who have perverted their faith to fit their radical agenda. Extremists should not be tolerated regardless what religion they justify themselves with. Whether its the Christian bombers in North Ireland or the Muslim suicide bombers in Pakistan. Whether its the crazy Iranian regime or the Zionist Isralies currently in power. None of them should be getting our support because they all stand for the same thing. They all stand for the killing of another people and hide behind the cloak of god to justify it.

CarolinaHound wrote:

What you said is interesting because the way you interpret the bible depends on which side of the fence you stand on. You say it was written by humans. I would agree to this statement. However, it is a widely held Christian belief that these mere men were guided and inspired by the holy spirit and others. Therefore, that would make the writings divinely inspired and error free. But I don't think it can be both ways. Either it was written by mere men of their own accord, which would account for the many errors and contradictions, but that takes away the devine part of it and the book wouldn't be as powerful then. OR it was divinely inspired with no errors and what is in there is exactly what YHWH wanted to go in there. Then it makes you wonder why so many contradictions and multiple different accounts of the same events? This could be it's own thread in and of itself.

But it can go both ways. Even Moses, though guided by God, went against what God wanted. That's why after he led them to the promised land he couldn't stay there with them. Even with devine influance the human factor still rears it's ugly head.

Good point, but on the other side of that coin I would say this is the very reason he is what need right now. Someone who, may not follow the faith, but at the very least recognizes their right to exist and is tolerable toward their beliefs. Someone who is versed in both is not really a bad thing. It's better than having a Bible thumping, Muslim hating, bigot in office.

I really can't argue that as in my opinion someone versed in both would be a good thing. But like I said, it's not his background that bothers me except for his lack of experiance. It's his screwy decisions, promises that everyone should know can't be kept, general air of pussyness (sorry HP, OT, and others that don't like that language), and from what I've seen so far poor judgment. Heck his teleprompters don't really bother me as much as they do some. Public speaking 101 - bring outline of speach and notes. So he uses a prompter, big deal. It'd his goofy decisions and policies. Like bowing to the king. What was he thinking? Man up 101 - don't bow to anybody unless you know it's their custom. Elsewise, you look like a pussy (sorry That's my word for the day. ) when he don't bow in return. jmo

We are at war with people who have perverted their faith to fit their radical agenda. Extremists should not be tolerated regardless what religion they justify themselves with. Whether its the Christian bombers in North Ireland or the Muslim suicide bombers in Pakistan. Whether its the crazy Iranian regime or the Zionist Isralies currently in power. None of them should be getting our support because they all stand for the same thing. They all stand for the killing of another people and hide behind the cloak of god to justify it.

That's what I meant. You said it better than I would of anyway. And I was getting tired of writting, and wanted to get back to weeding my garden. ("weeding my garden" Now I sound like a wussy.)

Bet you thought I was gonna say pussy instead of wussy didn't ya?