What Gov's Don't Tell You...
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CarolinaHound
HotParadox
Old Timer
PaulM
Theophilus
Peregrine(Endangered)
Cartoon Head
11 posters
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What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by Cartoon Head Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:19 pm
I know someone that used to be senior in the British Military Police, and she is not one to tell stories.
She has alluded to me in the past that Gov's here in the UK have sometimes engaged in experiments, which have exposed the public to health dangers, without the public actually being made aware that they are part of some experiment.
I think she mentioned something about either chemicals or gases that were released into the environment, in one populated area. Where this was, and what then happened, she was not at ease speaking about.
This may seem no more than a good tale, but I believe that the US has a history in which Gov's have engaged in social experiments, without the people knowing.
She has alluded to me in the past that Gov's here in the UK have sometimes engaged in experiments, which have exposed the public to health dangers, without the public actually being made aware that they are part of some experiment.
I think she mentioned something about either chemicals or gases that were released into the environment, in one populated area. Where this was, and what then happened, she was not at ease speaking about.
This may seem no more than a good tale, but I believe that the US has a history in which Gov's have engaged in social experiments, without the people knowing.
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by Peregrine(Endangered) Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:48 pm
I did a google on human experiments in the USA: Unbelieveable!!!
1931 Dr. Cornelius Rhoads, under the auspices of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Investigations, infects human subjects with cancer cells. He later goes on to establish the U.S. Army Biological Warfare facilities in Maryland, Utah, and Panama, and is named to the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission. While there, he begins a series of radiation exposure experiments on American soldiers and civilian hospital patients.
1932 The Tuskegee Syphilis Study begins. 200 black men diagnosed with syphilis are never told of their illness, are denied treatment, and instead are used as human guinea pigs in order to follow the progression and symptoms of the disease. They all subsequently die from syphilis, their families never told that they could have been treated.
1935 The Pellagra Incident. After millions of individuals die from Pellagra over a span of two decades, the U.S. Public Health Service finally acts to stem the disease. The director of the agency admits it had known for at least 20 years that Pellagra is caused by a niacin deficiency but failed to act since most of the deaths occured within poverty-striken black populations.
1940 Four hundred prisoners in Chicago are infected with Malaria in order to study the effects of new and experimental drugs to
combat the disease. Nazi doctors later on trial at Nuremberg cite this American study to defend their own actions during the Holocaust.
1942 Chemical Warfare Services begins mustard gas experiments on approximately 4,000 servicemen. The experiments continue until 1945 and made use of Seventh Day Adventists who chose to become human guinea pigs rather than serve on active duty.
1943 In response to Japan's full-scale germ warfare program, the U.S. begins research on biological weapons at Fort Detrick, MD.
1944 U.S. Navy uses human subjects to test gas masks and clothing. Individuals were locked in a gas chamber and exposed to mustard gas and lewisite.
1945 Project Paperclip is initiated. The U.S. State Department, Army intelligence, and the CIA recruit Nazi scientists and offer them immunity and secret identities in exchange for work on top secret government projects in the United States.
1945 "Program F" is implemented by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC). This is the most extensive U.S. study of the health effects of fluoride, which was the key chemical component in atomic bomb production. One of the most toxic chemicals known to man, fluoride, it is found, causes marked adverse effects to the central nervous system but much of the information is squelched in the name of national security because of fear that lawsuits would undermine full-scale production of atomic bombs.
1946 Patients in VA hospitals are used as guinea pigs for medical experiments. In order to allay suspicions, the order is given to change the word "experiments" to "investigations" or "observations" whenever reporting a medical study performed in one of the nation's veteran's hospitals.
1947 Colonel E.E. Kirkpatrick of the U.S. Atomic Energy Comission issues a secret document (Document 07075001, January 8, 1947) stating that the agency will begin administering intravenous doses of radioactive substances to human subjects.
1947 The CIA begins its study of LSD as a potential weapon for use by American intelligence. Human subjects (both civilian and military) are used with and without their knowledge.
1950 Department of Defense begins plans to detonate nuclear weapons in desert areas and monitor downwind residents for medical problems and mortality rates.
1950 I n an experiment to determine how susceptible an American city would be to biological attack, the U.S. Navy sprays a cloud of bacteria from ships over San Franciso. Monitoring devices are situated throughout the city in order to test the extent of infection. Many residents become ill with pneumonia-like symptoms.
1951 Department of Defense begins open air tests using disease-producing bacteria and viruses. Tests last through 1969 and there is concern that people in the surrounding areas have been exposed.
1953 U.S. military releases clouds of zinc cadmium sulfide gas over Winnipeg, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Fort Wayne, the Monocacy River Valley in Maryland, and Leesburg, Virginia. Their intent is to determine how efficiently they could disperse chemical agents.
1953 Joint Army-Navy-CIA experiments are conducted in which tens of thousands of people in New York and San Francisco are exposed to the airborne germs Serratia marcescens and Bacillus glogigii.
1953 CIA initiates Project MKULTRA. This is an eleven year research program designed to produce and test drugs and biological agents that would be used for mind control and behavior modification. Six of the subprojects involved testing the agents on unwitting human beings.
1955 The CIA, in an experiment to test its ability to infect human populations with biological agents, releases a bacteria withdrawn from the Army's biological warfare arsenal over Tampa Bay, Fl.
1955 Army Chemical Corps continues LSD research, studying its potential use as a chemical incapacitating agent. More than 1,000 Americans participate in the tests, which continue until 1958.
1956 U.S. military releases mosquitoes infected with Yellow Fever over Savannah, Ga and Avon Park, Fl. Following each test, Army agents posing as public health officials test victims for effects.
1958 LSD is tested on 95 volunteers at the Army's Chemical Warfare Laboratories for its effect on intelligence.
1960 The Army Assistant Chief-of-Staff for Intelligence (ACSI) authorizes field testing of LSD in Europe and the Far East. Testing of the european population is code named Project THIRD CHANCE; testing of the Asian population is code named Project DERBY HAT.
1965 Project CIA and Department of Defense begin Project MKSEARCH, a program to develop a capability to manipulate human behavior through the use of mind-altering drugs.
1965 Prisoners at the Holmesburg State Prison in Philadelphia are subjected to dioxin, the highly toxic chemical component of Agent Orange used in Viet Nam. The men are later studied for development of cancer, which indicates that Agent Orange had been a suspected carcinogen all along.
1966 CIA initiates Project MKOFTEN, a program to test the toxicological effects of certain drugs on humans and animals.
1966 U.S. Army dispenses Bacillus subtilis variant niger throughout the New York City subway system. More than a million civilians are exposed when army scientists drop lightbulbs filled with the bacteria onto ventilation grates.
1967 CIA and Department of Defense implement Project MKNAOMI, successor to MKULTRA and designed to maintain, stockpile and test biological and chemical weapons.
1968 CIA experiments with the possibility of poisoning drinking water by injecting chemicals into the water supply of the FDA in Washington, D.C.
1969 Dr. Robert MacMahan of the Department of Defense requests from congress $10 million to develop, within 5 to 10 years, a synthetic biological agent to which no natural immunity exists.
1970 Funding for the synthetic biological agent is obtained under H.R. 15090. The project, under the supervision of the CIA, is carried out by the Special Operations Division at Fort Detrick, the army's top secret biological weapons facility. Speculation is raised that molecular biology techniques are used to produce AIDS-like retroviruses.
1970 United States intensifies its development of "ethnic weapons" (Military Review, Nov., 1970), designed to selectively target and eliminate specific ethnic groups who are susceptible due to genetic differences and variations in DNA.
1975 The virus section of Fort Detrick's Center for Biological Warfare Research is renamed the Fredrick Cancer Research Facilities and placed under the supervision of the National Cancer Institute (NCI) . It is here that a special virus cancer program is initiated by the U.S. Navy, purportedly to develop cancer-causing viruses. It is also here that retrovirologists isolate a virus to which no immunity exists. It is later named HTLV (Human T-cell Leukemia Virus).
1977 Senate hearings on Health and Scientific Research confirm that 239 populated areas had been contaminated with biological agents between 1949 and 1969. Some of the areas included San Francisco, Washington, D.C., Key West, Panama City, Minneapolis, and St. Louis.
1978 Experimental Hepatitis B vaccine trials, conducted by the CDC, begin in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco. Ads for research subjects specifically ask for promiscuous homosexual men.
1981 First cases of AIDS are confirmed in homosexual men in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco, triggering speculation that AIDS may have been introduced via the Hepatitis B vaccine
1985 According to the journal Science (227:173-177), HTLV and VISNA, a fatal sheep virus, are very similar, indicating a close taxonomic and evolutionary relationship.
1986 According to the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (83:4007-4011), HIV and VISNA are highly similar and share all structural elements, except for a small segment which is nearly identical to HTLV. This leads to speculation that HTLV and VISNA may have been linked to produce a new retrovirus to which no natural immunity exists.
1986 A report to Congress reveals that the U.S. Government's current generation of biological agents includes: modified viruses, naturally occurring toxins, and agents that are altered through genetic engineering to change immunological character and prevent treatment by all existing vaccines.
1987 Department of Defense admits that, despite a treaty banning research and development of biological agents, it continues to operate research facilities at 127 facilities and universities around the nation.
1990 More than 1500 six-month old black and hispanic babies in Los Angeles are given an "experimental" measles vaccine that had never been licensed for use in the United States. CDC later admits that parents were never informed that the vaccine being injected to their children was experimental.
1994 With a technique called "gene tracking," Dr. Garth Nicolson at the MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, TX discovers that many returning Desert Storm veterans are infected with an altered strain of Mycoplasma incognitus, a microbe commonly used in the production of biological weapons. Incorporated into its molecular structure is 40 percent of the HIV protein coat, indicating that it had been man-made.
1994 Senator John D. Rockefeller issues a report revealing that for at least 50 years the Department of Defense has used hundreds of thousands of military personnel in human experiments and for intentional exposure to dangerous substances. Materials included mustard and nerve gas, ionizing radiation, psychochemicals, hallucinogens, and drugs used during the Gulf War .
1995 U.S. Government admits that it had offered Japanese war criminals and scientists who had performed human medical experiments salaries and immunity from prosecution in exchange for data on biological warfare research.
1995 Dr. Garth Nicolson, uncovers evidence that the biological agents used during the Gulf War had been manufactured in Houston, TX and Boca Raton, Fl and tested on prisoners in the Texas Department of Corrections.
1996 Department of Defense admits that Desert Storm soldiers were exposed to chemical agents.
1997 Eighty-eight members of Congress sign a letter demanding an investigation into bioweapons use & Gulf War Syndrome.
http://www.healthnewsnet.com/humanexperiments.html
1931 Dr. Cornelius Rhoads, under the auspices of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Investigations, infects human subjects with cancer cells. He later goes on to establish the U.S. Army Biological Warfare facilities in Maryland, Utah, and Panama, and is named to the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission. While there, he begins a series of radiation exposure experiments on American soldiers and civilian hospital patients.
1932 The Tuskegee Syphilis Study begins. 200 black men diagnosed with syphilis are never told of their illness, are denied treatment, and instead are used as human guinea pigs in order to follow the progression and symptoms of the disease. They all subsequently die from syphilis, their families never told that they could have been treated.
1935 The Pellagra Incident. After millions of individuals die from Pellagra over a span of two decades, the U.S. Public Health Service finally acts to stem the disease. The director of the agency admits it had known for at least 20 years that Pellagra is caused by a niacin deficiency but failed to act since most of the deaths occured within poverty-striken black populations.
1940 Four hundred prisoners in Chicago are infected with Malaria in order to study the effects of new and experimental drugs to
combat the disease. Nazi doctors later on trial at Nuremberg cite this American study to defend their own actions during the Holocaust.
1942 Chemical Warfare Services begins mustard gas experiments on approximately 4,000 servicemen. The experiments continue until 1945 and made use of Seventh Day Adventists who chose to become human guinea pigs rather than serve on active duty.
1943 In response to Japan's full-scale germ warfare program, the U.S. begins research on biological weapons at Fort Detrick, MD.
1944 U.S. Navy uses human subjects to test gas masks and clothing. Individuals were locked in a gas chamber and exposed to mustard gas and lewisite.
1945 Project Paperclip is initiated. The U.S. State Department, Army intelligence, and the CIA recruit Nazi scientists and offer them immunity and secret identities in exchange for work on top secret government projects in the United States.
1945 "Program F" is implemented by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC). This is the most extensive U.S. study of the health effects of fluoride, which was the key chemical component in atomic bomb production. One of the most toxic chemicals known to man, fluoride, it is found, causes marked adverse effects to the central nervous system but much of the information is squelched in the name of national security because of fear that lawsuits would undermine full-scale production of atomic bombs.
1946 Patients in VA hospitals are used as guinea pigs for medical experiments. In order to allay suspicions, the order is given to change the word "experiments" to "investigations" or "observations" whenever reporting a medical study performed in one of the nation's veteran's hospitals.
1947 Colonel E.E. Kirkpatrick of the U.S. Atomic Energy Comission issues a secret document (Document 07075001, January 8, 1947) stating that the agency will begin administering intravenous doses of radioactive substances to human subjects.
1947 The CIA begins its study of LSD as a potential weapon for use by American intelligence. Human subjects (both civilian and military) are used with and without their knowledge.
1950 Department of Defense begins plans to detonate nuclear weapons in desert areas and monitor downwind residents for medical problems and mortality rates.
1950 I n an experiment to determine how susceptible an American city would be to biological attack, the U.S. Navy sprays a cloud of bacteria from ships over San Franciso. Monitoring devices are situated throughout the city in order to test the extent of infection. Many residents become ill with pneumonia-like symptoms.
1951 Department of Defense begins open air tests using disease-producing bacteria and viruses. Tests last through 1969 and there is concern that people in the surrounding areas have been exposed.
1953 U.S. military releases clouds of zinc cadmium sulfide gas over Winnipeg, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Fort Wayne, the Monocacy River Valley in Maryland, and Leesburg, Virginia. Their intent is to determine how efficiently they could disperse chemical agents.
1953 Joint Army-Navy-CIA experiments are conducted in which tens of thousands of people in New York and San Francisco are exposed to the airborne germs Serratia marcescens and Bacillus glogigii.
1953 CIA initiates Project MKULTRA. This is an eleven year research program designed to produce and test drugs and biological agents that would be used for mind control and behavior modification. Six of the subprojects involved testing the agents on unwitting human beings.
1955 The CIA, in an experiment to test its ability to infect human populations with biological agents, releases a bacteria withdrawn from the Army's biological warfare arsenal over Tampa Bay, Fl.
1955 Army Chemical Corps continues LSD research, studying its potential use as a chemical incapacitating agent. More than 1,000 Americans participate in the tests, which continue until 1958.
1956 U.S. military releases mosquitoes infected with Yellow Fever over Savannah, Ga and Avon Park, Fl. Following each test, Army agents posing as public health officials test victims for effects.
1958 LSD is tested on 95 volunteers at the Army's Chemical Warfare Laboratories for its effect on intelligence.
1960 The Army Assistant Chief-of-Staff for Intelligence (ACSI) authorizes field testing of LSD in Europe and the Far East. Testing of the european population is code named Project THIRD CHANCE; testing of the Asian population is code named Project DERBY HAT.
1965 Project CIA and Department of Defense begin Project MKSEARCH, a program to develop a capability to manipulate human behavior through the use of mind-altering drugs.
1965 Prisoners at the Holmesburg State Prison in Philadelphia are subjected to dioxin, the highly toxic chemical component of Agent Orange used in Viet Nam. The men are later studied for development of cancer, which indicates that Agent Orange had been a suspected carcinogen all along.
1966 CIA initiates Project MKOFTEN, a program to test the toxicological effects of certain drugs on humans and animals.
1966 U.S. Army dispenses Bacillus subtilis variant niger throughout the New York City subway system. More than a million civilians are exposed when army scientists drop lightbulbs filled with the bacteria onto ventilation grates.
1967 CIA and Department of Defense implement Project MKNAOMI, successor to MKULTRA and designed to maintain, stockpile and test biological and chemical weapons.
1968 CIA experiments with the possibility of poisoning drinking water by injecting chemicals into the water supply of the FDA in Washington, D.C.
1969 Dr. Robert MacMahan of the Department of Defense requests from congress $10 million to develop, within 5 to 10 years, a synthetic biological agent to which no natural immunity exists.
1970 Funding for the synthetic biological agent is obtained under H.R. 15090. The project, under the supervision of the CIA, is carried out by the Special Operations Division at Fort Detrick, the army's top secret biological weapons facility. Speculation is raised that molecular biology techniques are used to produce AIDS-like retroviruses.
1970 United States intensifies its development of "ethnic weapons" (Military Review, Nov., 1970), designed to selectively target and eliminate specific ethnic groups who are susceptible due to genetic differences and variations in DNA.
1975 The virus section of Fort Detrick's Center for Biological Warfare Research is renamed the Fredrick Cancer Research Facilities and placed under the supervision of the National Cancer Institute (NCI) . It is here that a special virus cancer program is initiated by the U.S. Navy, purportedly to develop cancer-causing viruses. It is also here that retrovirologists isolate a virus to which no immunity exists. It is later named HTLV (Human T-cell Leukemia Virus).
1977 Senate hearings on Health and Scientific Research confirm that 239 populated areas had been contaminated with biological agents between 1949 and 1969. Some of the areas included San Francisco, Washington, D.C., Key West, Panama City, Minneapolis, and St. Louis.
1978 Experimental Hepatitis B vaccine trials, conducted by the CDC, begin in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco. Ads for research subjects specifically ask for promiscuous homosexual men.
1981 First cases of AIDS are confirmed in homosexual men in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco, triggering speculation that AIDS may have been introduced via the Hepatitis B vaccine
1985 According to the journal Science (227:173-177), HTLV and VISNA, a fatal sheep virus, are very similar, indicating a close taxonomic and evolutionary relationship.
1986 According to the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (83:4007-4011), HIV and VISNA are highly similar and share all structural elements, except for a small segment which is nearly identical to HTLV. This leads to speculation that HTLV and VISNA may have been linked to produce a new retrovirus to which no natural immunity exists.
1986 A report to Congress reveals that the U.S. Government's current generation of biological agents includes: modified viruses, naturally occurring toxins, and agents that are altered through genetic engineering to change immunological character and prevent treatment by all existing vaccines.
1987 Department of Defense admits that, despite a treaty banning research and development of biological agents, it continues to operate research facilities at 127 facilities and universities around the nation.
1990 More than 1500 six-month old black and hispanic babies in Los Angeles are given an "experimental" measles vaccine that had never been licensed for use in the United States. CDC later admits that parents were never informed that the vaccine being injected to their children was experimental.
1994 With a technique called "gene tracking," Dr. Garth Nicolson at the MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, TX discovers that many returning Desert Storm veterans are infected with an altered strain of Mycoplasma incognitus, a microbe commonly used in the production of biological weapons. Incorporated into its molecular structure is 40 percent of the HIV protein coat, indicating that it had been man-made.
1994 Senator John D. Rockefeller issues a report revealing that for at least 50 years the Department of Defense has used hundreds of thousands of military personnel in human experiments and for intentional exposure to dangerous substances. Materials included mustard and nerve gas, ionizing radiation, psychochemicals, hallucinogens, and drugs used during the Gulf War .
1995 U.S. Government admits that it had offered Japanese war criminals and scientists who had performed human medical experiments salaries and immunity from prosecution in exchange for data on biological warfare research.
1995 Dr. Garth Nicolson, uncovers evidence that the biological agents used during the Gulf War had been manufactured in Houston, TX and Boca Raton, Fl and tested on prisoners in the Texas Department of Corrections.
1996 Department of Defense admits that Desert Storm soldiers were exposed to chemical agents.
1997 Eighty-eight members of Congress sign a letter demanding an investigation into bioweapons use & Gulf War Syndrome.
http://www.healthnewsnet.com/humanexperiments.html
Peregrine(Endangered)-
Number of posts : 1132
Age : 82
Location : Delaware
Job/hobbies : Gardening, Birding
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Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by Cartoon Head Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:50 pm
Yup.
Like I said, the US, and others, they have pre con for this sort of thing.
I bet had you suggested it at the time, you would have been written off as a nut, huh?
Makes you think...
Like I said, the US, and others, they have pre con for this sort of thing.
I bet had you suggested it at the time, you would have been written off as a nut, huh?
Makes you think...
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by Peregrine(Endangered) Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:53 pm
I know, it borders on appalling...I think all governments have their dirty little secrets..It doesn't make for great headlines so its underreported..... At least it out there, they aren't trying to hide it anymore.
Peregrine(Endangered)-
Number of posts : 1132
Age : 82
Location : Delaware
Job/hobbies : Gardening, Birding
Humor : lots
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by Cartoon Head Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:58 pm
I think it is fair to say that anyone that puts any faith in people like Bush and Cheney are likely, in the future, to see that they really did back men who were basically wicked.
I bet history proves me right, and they too are shown to be involved in many terrible acts, or at least their Government.
I bet history proves me right, and they too are shown to be involved in many terrible acts, or at least their Government.
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by Theophilus Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:41 am
You all might want to study on who was behind the saturn 5 rocket.
Theophilus-
Number of posts : 914
Location : Beautiful Northern California.
Humor : I miss the humor in what people say at times.
Registration date : 2009-01-15
Re: What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by PaulM Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:11 am
howdy wrote:You all might want to study on who was behind the saturn 5 rocket.
Wasn't that VonBraun... the designer of the V2?
PaulM-
Number of posts : 577
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Re: What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by Cartoon Head Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:54 am
Here's a thought.
I used to dwell on this possibility, when I was a kid. Tell me what you think of it.
Each year in the US, a LOT of people go missing. The largest % are found again. However, some, a disproportionately high number, they vanish off the radar entirely, never to be seen again.
I used to think (for no good reason, really), that if the Government were operating a covert lab, one were the most terrible of experiments were to be conducted, then logically, they would require human 'volunteers' for this. Only, I don't imagine too many would literally volunteer. Therefore, my 'theory' was that various people, most usually those without much family or friends, would be abducted, right there off the streets, and used, by the Governments, in said experiements -
Far fetched?
What do you think?
I used to dwell on this possibility, when I was a kid. Tell me what you think of it.
Each year in the US, a LOT of people go missing. The largest % are found again. However, some, a disproportionately high number, they vanish off the radar entirely, never to be seen again.
I used to think (for no good reason, really), that if the Government were operating a covert lab, one were the most terrible of experiments were to be conducted, then logically, they would require human 'volunteers' for this. Only, I don't imagine too many would literally volunteer. Therefore, my 'theory' was that various people, most usually those without much family or friends, would be abducted, right there off the streets, and used, by the Governments, in said experiements -
Far fetched?
What do you think?
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by Old Timer Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:22 pm
I have read that ther have been many taken from prisons for such experiments
Old Timer-
Number of posts : 4718
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Re: What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by HotParadox Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:36 pm
It's a cool kid fantasy, but I don't buy it. I mean there are so many checks and balances built within the system, so many ethical agencies with government ties, that I just don't see how such a thing could slip through the radar. Someone, somewhere would catch wind of it, it would be blasted all over the news and, let's just say, the poop would hit the fan.The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Here's a thought.
I used to dwell on this possibility, when I was a kid. Tell me what you think of it.
Each year in the US, a LOT of people go missing. The largest % are found again. However, some, a disproportionately high number, they vanish off the radar entirely, never to be seen again.
I used to think (for no good reason, really), that if the Government were operating a covert lab, one were the most terrible of experiments were to be conducted, then logically, they would require human 'volunteers' for this. Only, I don't imagine too many would literally volunteer. Therefore, my 'theory' was that various people, most usually those without much family or friends, would be abducted, right there off the streets, and used, by the Governments, in said experiements -
Far fetched?
What do you think?
HotParadox-
Number of posts : 4051
Location : Boston
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by Peregrine(Endangered) Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:26 pm
I don't put too much faith in government when it comes to dirty deeds....the primary targets would be the homeless...they can disappear and who would know???? I suspect it happens all the time. Just take another look at my original post...thats some horrible stuff to do to american citizens.
Peregrine(Endangered)-
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Re: What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by Theophilus Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:52 pm
PaulM wrote:howdy wrote:You all might want to study on who was behind the saturn 5 rocket.
Wasn't that VonBraun... the designer of the V2?
I am pretty sure it is that guy.
Not a real nice person.
Theophilus-
Number of posts : 914
Location : Beautiful Northern California.
Humor : I miss the humor in what people say at times.
Registration date : 2009-01-15
Re: What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by Cartoon Head Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:47 pm
Peregrine wrote:I don't put too much faith in government when it comes to dirty deeds....the primary targets would be the homeless...they can disappear and who would know???? I suspect it happens all the time. Just take another look at my original post...thats some horrible stuff to do to american citizens.
I know.
The data is always released years after.
Makes you wonder what is happening NOW?
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by Cartoon Head Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:49 pm
HotParadox wrote:It's a cool kid fantasy, but I don't buy it. I mean there are so many checks and balances built within the system, so many ethical agencies with government ties, that I just don't see how such a thing could slip through the radar. Someone, somewhere would catch wind of it, it would be blasted all over the news and, let's just say, the poop would hit the fan.The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Here's a thought.
I used to dwell on this possibility, when I was a kid. Tell me what you think of it.
Each year in the US, a LOT of people go missing. The largest % are found again. However, some, a disproportionately high number, they vanish off the radar entirely, never to be seen again.
I used to think (for no good reason, really), that if the Government were operating a covert lab, one were the most terrible of experiments were to be conducted, then logically, they would require human 'volunteers' for this. Only, I don't imagine too many would literally volunteer. Therefore, my 'theory' was that various people, most usually those without much family or friends, would be abducted, right there off the streets, and used, by the Governments, in said experiements -
Far fetched?
What do you think?
A hooker goes missing, or someone without any family or friends.
How hard and for how long do the authorities tend to look?
Not for long, imo.
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
CarolinaHound-
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Re: What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by HotParadox Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:26 pm
I just took a look at your original post and I hadn't seen it before. It makes me sick.Peregrine wrote:I don't put too much faith in government when it comes to dirty deeds....the primary targets would be the homeless...they can disappear and who would know???? I suspect it happens all the time. Just take another look at my original post...thats some horrible stuff to do to american citizens.
Last edited by HotParadox on Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:45 am; edited 1 time in total
HotParadox-
Number of posts : 4051
Location : Boston
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Re: What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by HotParadox Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:34 pm
After reading Peregrine's original post, and if those allegations have been verified as true, you have a valid point. I would like to check the source thoroughly, if I ever get the time. Those are some remarkable accounts yet, there has not been too much outrage, AFAIK, which leads me to speculation.The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:HotParadox wrote:It's a cool kid fantasy, but I don't buy it. I mean there are so many checks and balances built within the system, so many ethical agencies with government ties, that I just don't see how such a thing could slip through the radar. Someone, somewhere would catch wind of it, it would be blasted all over the news and, let's just say, the poop would hit the fan.The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Here's a thought.
I used to dwell on this possibility, when I was a kid. Tell me what you think of it.
Each year in the US, a LOT of people go missing. The largest % are found again. However, some, a disproportionately high number, they vanish off the radar entirely, never to be seen again.
I used to think (for no good reason, really), that if the Government were operating a covert lab, one were the most terrible of experiments were to be conducted, then logically, they would require human 'volunteers' for this. Only, I don't imagine too many would literally volunteer. Therefore, my 'theory' was that various people, most usually those without much family or friends, would be abducted, right there off the streets, and used, by the Governments, in said experiements -
Far fetched?
What do you think?
A hooker goes missing, or someone without any family or friends.
How hard and for how long do the authorities tend to look?
Not for long, imo.
HotParadox-
Number of posts : 4051
Location : Boston
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Re: What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by Cartoon Head Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:10 pm
Let's not forgot, the idea of perfectly innocent people simply dissapearing off the streets, abducted by Government agents, is not a new one.
It has happened.
It is happening.
How many people vanished during the reign of Stalin? And there are other examples. We kid ourselves into thinking that such horrors cannot happen here, that somehow our Government are more, what.... full of gallantry?
Nah. They have as much potential to abuse power as any other nation.
It has happened.
It is happening.
How many people vanished during the reign of Stalin? And there are other examples. We kid ourselves into thinking that such horrors cannot happen here, that somehow our Government are more, what.... full of gallantry?
Nah. They have as much potential to abuse power as any other nation.
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by Big Slick Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:04 pm
Wasn't Saddam tried and executed for releasing biological weapons on his own people? The court argued that he was trying ethnic cleansing. So ethnic cleansing is a crime but releasing biological weapons because we're just curious to see what will happen, that's OK? Strange world we live in.
Big Slick-
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Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by Cartoon Head Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:28 pm
Big Slick wrote:Wasn't Saddam tried and executed for releasing biological weapons on his own people? The court argued that he was trying ethnic cleansing. So ethnic cleansing is a crime but releasing biological weapons because we're just curious to see what will happen, that's OK? Strange world we live in.
Slick, from the moment he was found, it was a given that he would be executed.
After all, any sentence which had kept him alive, and he would have been a living witness to the fact that there were no weapons, as alleged, and they weren't moved overnight, using a large bag, as some might think.
I believe, from memory, there were allegations about actions that he took against Kurds who happened to live in Northern Iraq.
But don't you find it rather fake that certain people suddenly pretend to have the interests at heart of Kurds (or whoever), when it suits them, when we know full well they really don't give a toss about them, at any other time, if you take my point.
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by Big Slick Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:51 pm
Oh I have no doubt governments will care about certain groups only when it's convenient. And I agree there was no doubt he would be convicted and executed. Especially when he was being tried in a court of the regime that just overthrew him (with a little help of course). That is hardly what I would call a fair and impartial trial.
And how come we haven't heard any more about these WMDs? Let's assume Iraq had them and moved them. Where were they moved to? They wouldn't just disappear. Are they in another country? If so, which one and who has access to them? Remember this is not an ammo box full of hand grenades, these are weapons of mass destruction. Don't you think there would be a little more sense of urgency to find these weapons so they don't fall into the hands of some crazy person?
And how come we haven't heard any more about these WMDs? Let's assume Iraq had them and moved them. Where were they moved to? They wouldn't just disappear. Are they in another country? If so, which one and who has access to them? Remember this is not an ammo box full of hand grenades, these are weapons of mass destruction. Don't you think there would be a little more sense of urgency to find these weapons so they don't fall into the hands of some crazy person?
Big Slick-
Number of posts : 403
Location : Dallas
Job/hobbies : Poker
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by Cartoon Head Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:32 pm
One thing has always puzzled me, Slick.
It would have been within the means of the CIA to have literally 'planted' evidence of weapons, thus adding greater credibility to their claims.
Why didn't they..?
It would have been within the means of the CIA to have literally 'planted' evidence of weapons, thus adding greater credibility to their claims.
Why didn't they..?
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by Sir Bonvolio Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:24 pm
Cartoon Head wrote:Big Slick wrote:Wasn't Saddam tried and executed for releasing biological weapons on his own people? The court argued that he was trying ethnic cleansing. So ethnic cleansing is a crime but releasing biological weapons because we're just curious to see what will happen, that's OK? Strange world we live in.
Slick, from the moment he was found, it was a given that he would be executed.
After all, any sentence which had kept him alive, and he would have been a living witness to the fact that there were no weapons, as alleged, and they weren't moved overnight, using a large bag, as some might think.
I believe, from memory, there were allegations about actions that he took against Kurds who happened to live in Northern Iraq.
But don't you find it rather fake that certain people suddenly pretend to have the interests at heart of Kurds (or whoever), when it suits them, when we know full well they really don't give a toss about them, at any other time, if you take my point.
And, ummm... Where did the chemical weapons that Chemical Ali + co gassed the Kurds with come from?
Sir Bonvolio-
Number of posts : 315
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Humor : The darker the better
Registration date : 2009-02-22
Re: What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by Cartoon Head Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:01 am
E Bay. Good to see you on here, fella.
Steve
Steve
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by Grim17 Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:58 pm
When it comes to AIDS and the HIV virus, I found an interesting article. Here are a few excerpts:
The origin of AIDS and HIV and the first cases of AIDS
The 'Hunter' Theory
The most commonly accepted theory is that of the 'hunter'. In this scenario, SIVcpz was transferred to humans as a result of chimps being killed and eaten or their blood getting into cuts or wounds on the hunter. Normally the hunter's body would have fought off SIV, but on a few occasions it adapted itself within its new human host and become HIV-1. The fact that there were several different early strains of HIV, each with a slightly different genetic make-up (the most common of which was HIV-1 group M), would support this theory: every time it passed from a chimpanzee to a man, it would have developed in a slightly different way within his body, and thus produced a slightly different strain.
An article published in The Lancet in 2004, also shows how retroviral transfer from primates to hunters is still occurring even today. In a sample of 1099 individuals in Cameroon , they discovered ten (1%) were infected with SFV (Simian Foamy Virus), an illness which, like SIV, was previously thought only to infect primates. All these infections were believed to have been acquired through the butchering and consumption of monkey and ape meat. Discoveries such as this have led to calls for an outright ban on bushmeat hunting to prevent simian viruses being passed to humans.
Snip
WHEN?
During the last few years it has become possible not only to determine whether HIV is present in a blood or plasma sample, but also to determine the particular subtype of the virus. Studying the subtype of virus of some of the earliest known instances of HIV infection can help to provide clues about the time it first appeared in humans and its subsequent evolution.
Four of the earliest known instances of HIV infection are as follows:
1. A plasma sample taken in 1959 from an adult male living in what is now the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
2. A lymph node sample taken in 1960 from an adult female, also from the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
3. HIV found in tissue samples from an American teenager who died in St. Louis in 1969.
4. HIV found in tissue samples from a Norwegian sailor who died around 1976.
A 1998 analysis of the plasma sample from 1959 suggested that HIV-1 was introduced into humans around the 1940s or the early 1950s.
In January 2000, the results of a new study suggested that the first case of HIV-1 infection occurred around 1931 in West Africa. This estimate (which had a 15 year margin of error) was based on a complex computer model of HIV's evolution.
However, a study in 2008 dated the origin of HIV to between 1884 and 1924, much earlier than previous estimates. The researchers compared the viral sequence from 1959 (the oldest known HIV-1 specimen) to the newly discovered sequence from 1960. They found a significant genetic difference between them, demonstrating diversification of HIV-1 occurred long before the AIDS pandemic was recognised.
The authors suggest a long history of the virus in Africa and call Kinshasa the “epicentre of the HIV/AIDS pandemic” in West Africa. They propose the early spread of HIV was concurrent with the development of colonial cities, in which crowding of people increased opportunities for transmission. If accurate, these findings imply that HIV existed before many scenarios (such as the OPV and conspiracy theories) suggest.
****
Take it for what it's worth... But it seems to shoot down most of the conspiracy theories.
The origin of AIDS and HIV and the first cases of AIDS
The 'Hunter' Theory
The most commonly accepted theory is that of the 'hunter'. In this scenario, SIVcpz was transferred to humans as a result of chimps being killed and eaten or their blood getting into cuts or wounds on the hunter. Normally the hunter's body would have fought off SIV, but on a few occasions it adapted itself within its new human host and become HIV-1. The fact that there were several different early strains of HIV, each with a slightly different genetic make-up (the most common of which was HIV-1 group M), would support this theory: every time it passed from a chimpanzee to a man, it would have developed in a slightly different way within his body, and thus produced a slightly different strain.
An article published in The Lancet in 2004, also shows how retroviral transfer from primates to hunters is still occurring even today. In a sample of 1099 individuals in Cameroon , they discovered ten (1%) were infected with SFV (Simian Foamy Virus), an illness which, like SIV, was previously thought only to infect primates. All these infections were believed to have been acquired through the butchering and consumption of monkey and ape meat. Discoveries such as this have led to calls for an outright ban on bushmeat hunting to prevent simian viruses being passed to humans.
Snip
WHEN?
During the last few years it has become possible not only to determine whether HIV is present in a blood or plasma sample, but also to determine the particular subtype of the virus. Studying the subtype of virus of some of the earliest known instances of HIV infection can help to provide clues about the time it first appeared in humans and its subsequent evolution.
Four of the earliest known instances of HIV infection are as follows:
1. A plasma sample taken in 1959 from an adult male living in what is now the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
2. A lymph node sample taken in 1960 from an adult female, also from the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
3. HIV found in tissue samples from an American teenager who died in St. Louis in 1969.
4. HIV found in tissue samples from a Norwegian sailor who died around 1976.
A 1998 analysis of the plasma sample from 1959 suggested that HIV-1 was introduced into humans around the 1940s or the early 1950s.
In January 2000, the results of a new study suggested that the first case of HIV-1 infection occurred around 1931 in West Africa. This estimate (which had a 15 year margin of error) was based on a complex computer model of HIV's evolution.
However, a study in 2008 dated the origin of HIV to between 1884 and 1924, much earlier than previous estimates. The researchers compared the viral sequence from 1959 (the oldest known HIV-1 specimen) to the newly discovered sequence from 1960. They found a significant genetic difference between them, demonstrating diversification of HIV-1 occurred long before the AIDS pandemic was recognised.
The authors suggest a long history of the virus in Africa and call Kinshasa the “epicentre of the HIV/AIDS pandemic” in West Africa. They propose the early spread of HIV was concurrent with the development of colonial cities, in which crowding of people increased opportunities for transmission. If accurate, these findings imply that HIV existed before many scenarios (such as the OPV and conspiracy theories) suggest.
****
Take it for what it's worth... But it seems to shoot down most of the conspiracy theories.
Grim17-
Number of posts : 430
Age : 59
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Re: What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by Theophilus Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:42 pm
I had never heard that the earliest origin of HIV might be in the late 1800's.
Now that is fascinating.
Now that is fascinating.
Theophilus-
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Location : Beautiful Northern California.
Humor : I miss the humor in what people say at times.
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Re: What Gov's Don't Tell You...
by luciano Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:08 pm
Theophilus wrote:I had never heard that the earliest origin of HIV might be in the late 1800's.
Now that is fascinating.
I agree, I read Grim's post last night and thought it was pretty interesting myself.
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