Does anyone else see a problem with "stimulus"

JReed wrote:Since this is my first topic on this new board, I will start by saying hello to all.
This does seem to be a kinder, gentler scam.com. Very nice. I see many familiar names.

For my first topic I have a question.

For a good 8 years Bush Jr. printed money at will. And it is partly responsible for a gigantic economic disaster which, IMO, has only just begun.
Now, Obama has started his administration by printing huge amounts of money.

Now, I know the fiscal conservatives will agree with me when I say this seems "odd". But does anybody think this will work? A HUGE piece of the problem in America is that we have no discipline when it comes to money. We've been on a spending frenzy for decades. And that mentality is something that will have to change if we as a country are going to emerge from this economic collapse.

So can someone please explain to me how going on a spending spree of unprecidented numbers is going to fix things...when spending is the problem?

Peregrine(Endangered) wrote:I haven't looked at the finished bill...I think I will do that tomorow then come back...I don't know enough about what is actually included. I know we need to create or maintain jobs(stop sending jobs overseas)...just get people back to work and get banks lending again and get the mortgage crisis under control. Many states are in fiscal failure and need help...so I suppose some of the money will help them out. I don't know if this bill will solve anything but does anyone have a better plan?

lisan23 wrote:

Peregrine(Endangered) wrote:I haven't looked at the finished bill...I think I will do that tomorow then come back...I don't know enough about what is actually included. I know we need to create or maintain jobs(stop sending jobs overseas)...just get people back to work and get banks lending again and get the mortgage crisis under control. Many states are in fiscal failure and need help...so I suppose some of the money will help them out. I don't know if this bill will solve anything but does anyone have a better plan?

I was reading that some of the top states receiving help (including Wyoming and Utah) have the lowest unemployment rates in the country.

Independent Harry wrote:

JReed wrote:Since this is my first topic on this new board, I will start by saying hello to all.
This does seem to be a kinder, gentler scam.com. Very nice. I see many familiar names.

For my first topic I have a question.

For a good 8 years Bush Jr. printed money at will. And it is partly responsible for a gigantic economic disaster which, IMO, has only just begun.
Now, Obama has started his administration by printing huge amounts of money.

Now, I know the fiscal conservatives will agree with me when I say this seems "odd". But does anybody think this will work? A HUGE piece of the problem in America is that we have no discipline when it comes to money. We've been on a spending frenzy for decades. And that mentality is something that will have to change if we as a country are going to emerge from this economic collapse.

So can someone please explain to me how going on a spending spree of unprecidented numbers is going to fix things...when spending is the problem?

I don't really know what to make of this move by Obama. But I will say this, there is a difference between spending money on things like infrastructure and job creation. Vs just throwing 5 trillion dollars away with no discernable reward for the money spent.

JReed wrote:Since this is my first topic on this new board, I will start by saying hello to all.
This does seem to be a kinder, gentler scam.com. Very nice. I see many familiar names.

For my first topic I have a question.

For a good 8 years Bush Jr. printed money at will. And it is partly responsible for a gigantic economic disaster which, IMO, has only just begun.
Now, Obama has started his administration by printing huge amounts of money.

Now, I know the fiscal conservatives will agree with me when I say this seems "odd". But does anybody think this will work? A HUGE piece of the problem in America is that we have no discipline when it comes to money. We've been on a spending frenzy for decades. And that mentality is something that will have to change if we as a country are going to emerge from this economic collapse.

So can someone please explain to me how going on a spending spree of unprecidented numbers is going to fix things...when spending is the problem?

Americanadian wrote:Fiscal malfeasance caused this economic calamity. Bailing out the individuals and corporate entities which participated in or contributed to the fiscal malfeasance isn't exactly going to alleviate the problems. Rooting out the corruption should be the endeavor, not throwing taxpayer money at the problem and hoping it will disappear. The current failures are a result of corporate greed and government complicity. Greed has manifested itself to a point where we need to re-evaluate our lifestyles and make adjustments so that all of us don't fall into the abyss.

My main concern right now is all of the "pork" and subtle bills contained in the stimulus package. Politicians always get their way for passing certain laws when a calamity is present to distract the sheeple. Big Slick, I believe mentioned HR 45 is part of that package which will target gun ownership in America. This must not be permitted to transpire. Gun laws only deprive the common citizen of his/her right to defend themselves against a tyrannical government or the common petty thief. It does not affect the black market or criminals.

I guess the big question on everyone's minds is whether or not the stimulus package will work. It will prolong, IMO, but I don't believe it will stimulate the economy. If the government truly wanted a stimulation of the economy, they would be printing checks for every American for $20,000 (or more? I haven't calculated anything yet) to spend on debt and go on a shopping spree. Wouldn't that benefit America better than bailing out the companies which perpetuated greed for a select few?

Which brings up another concern I have with Obama's plans of late. His proposal to increase taxes for Americans. How is that going to stimulate the economy? I can understand the thinking behind such a move (increase spending, increase taxes to pay for it). However, at a time when the economy is crippled, taxing the people, upon which the recovery of the economy is dependent, is not a wise move whatsoever. Tax cuts aren't the answer either if the stimulus package is passed. I fear if a massive tax hike is passed, it will cause the economic collapse already feared by many.

Cash flow is the major issue currently. Increase the cash flow to the average American. Credit only helps continue the spending but it compromises cash flow in another way if job circumstances change. Take away spending and we are left with a recession. This leads to job losses and a further decrease in spending.

Hence, my proposal; a government bailout (or tax rebate) to the American people in order to eliminate some debt and begin the spending process again (their choice). Once the spending commences, more jobs can be created etc. People just need some relief from the economic oppression. That would be the more responsible and logical way to stimulate the economy, IMO.

JReed wrote:

Americanadian wrote:Fiscal malfeasance caused this economic calamity. Bailing out the individuals and corporate entities which participated in or contributed to the fiscal malfeasance isn't exactly going to alleviate the problems. Rooting out the corruption should be the endeavor, not throwing taxpayer money at the problem and hoping it will disappear. The current failures are a result of corporate greed and government complicity. Greed has manifested itself to a point where we need to re-evaluate our lifestyles and make adjustments so that all of us don't fall into the abyss.

My main concern right now is all of the "pork" and subtle bills contained in the stimulus package. Politicians always get their way for passing certain laws when a calamity is present to distract the sheeple. Big Slick, I believe mentioned HR 45 is part of that package which will target gun ownership in America. This must not be permitted to transpire. Gun laws only deprive the common citizen of his/her right to defend themselves against a tyrannical government or the common petty thief. It does not affect the black market or criminals.

I guess the big question on everyone's minds is whether or not the stimulus package will work. It will prolong, IMO, but I don't believe it will stimulate the economy. If the government truly wanted a stimulation of the economy, they would be printing checks for every American for $20,000 (or more? I haven't calculated anything yet) to spend on debt and go on a shopping spree. Wouldn't that benefit America better than bailing out the companies which perpetuated greed for a select few?

Which brings up another concern I have with Obama's plans of late. His proposal to increase taxes for Americans. How is that going to stimulate the economy? I can understand the thinking behind such a move (increase spending, increase taxes to pay for it). However, at a time when the economy is crippled, taxing the people, upon which the recovery of the economy is dependent, is not a wise move whatsoever. Tax cuts aren't the answer either if the stimulus package is passed. I fear if a massive tax hike is passed, it will cause the economic collapse already feared by many.

Cash flow is the major issue currently. Increase the cash flow to the average American. Credit only helps continue the spending but it compromises cash flow in another way if job circumstances change. Take away spending and we are left with a recession. This leads to job losses and a further decrease in spending.

Hence, my proposal; a government bailout (or tax rebate) to the American people in order to eliminate some debt and begin the spending process again (their choice). Once the spending commences, more jobs can be created etc. People just need some relief from the economic oppression. That would be the more responsible and logical way to stimulate the economy, IMO.

Well said. I agree completely.
Just think if every tax paying american were given back a larger sum to do with as they please. Many would pay off debt and get out of trouble, others would spend, others would save, others would invest. One way or the other...that money goes to good use.

Obama's way gives it right to the executives. I thought the repudlikins were in bed with the corporate execs. The dems were supposed to look out for the little guy. Is this bizarro world?