The Hot Potato....

I understand this is going to be a sensitive one, but fuck it, someone has to do it, huh, and it is on the right part of the board, as far as I can see.

I would like to examine here the sometimes held notion that the Holocaust did not unravel, quite the way it has been told to us.

It is certainly true to say that early 'facts' that were put around, such as Jews being turned into bars of soap and candles, were nothing but fiction. Yet once upon a time, they were indeed accepted as being historical fact, by the masses.

However, there are those who claim that there was no mass programme of Jewish extermination, and that many of the Jews that died in prison camps did so through unhygienic conditions, caused by war.

Again, it is surely true to say that illness did account for many fatalities in those camps.

And it is also true to say that the bombing of Germany actually hastened the end for many.

But is there any value to these claims that so called 'revisionsists' make?

Holocaust revisionists will range in degree, to those that challenge parts of what is put out as fact, and those who flat deny that there was a mass extermination programme.

Of course, usually this is an unpopular idea to flag around. Revisionists have been met with violence and hostility, harrassment and intimidation. In various European nations, it is illegal for revisionists to challenge the holocaust, and they can and have gone to jail for doing so. Books relating to their beleifs are banned. No matter what I think of those who think that way, I cannot agree with making them into a martyr case, by banning their books, and banning their 'right' to speak, from a supposed historical perspective. If their account can be proven absolutely 100% false, then even better, we can then do that, and show everyone that they are merely liars.

But when you make an idea illegal, you add to the conspiracy, imo.

I thought I would open this by typing some random terms into Google and YT, see what came up first.

We can watch/read that, then take it from there..?


CH

http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com/


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial

Any takers?

*And remember, choice of topic does not = agreement with, okay!*

I shall root around Der Net more, when less tired....

You're right this is a touchy subject. First, let me say I do believe the event happened. However, I could see how some of the fact could have been exagerated for effect. It is plausable that the 6 million figure could have beed exagerated. I don't believe Jews were the only group being targeted. I do believe the German killed lots of these prisoners using various killing techniques. These German concentration camps is where all the majority of our knowlege about poisons, chemicals and their effect on the human body comes from. So you could say in a sort of a sick way that the killing helped us learn a lot.

I don't know if I totally buy into the thought of a Zionist conspiracy but I'm sure there are lots of facts that were either held back or twisted a little to make it more dramatic.

So in short, it's plausable but I'm not convinced with what I've seen so far.

Big Slick wrote:You're right this is a touchy subject. First, let me say I do believe the event happened. However, I could see how some of the fact could have been exagerated for effect. It is plausable that the 6 million figure could have beed exagerated. I don't believe Jews were the only group being targeted. I do believe the German killed lots of these prisoners using various killing techniques. These German concentration camps is where all the majority of our knowlege about poisons, chemicals and their effect on the human body comes from. So you could say in a sort of a sick way that the killing helped us learn a lot.

I don't know if I totally buy into the thought of a Zionist conspiracy but I'm sure there are lots of facts that were either held back or twisted a little to make it more dramatic.

So in short, it's plausable but I'm not convinced with what I've seen so far.

AFAIK, the figure of six million has ebbed and flowed over time.

And, as you say, it was most certainly not just Jews who were a target.

I think that is one of the bugbears, Slick. Trade Unionists, socialist, communists, gypsies, homosexuals, and others, they were all a target to, and yet, seem forgotten. Some object to the fact that modern Israeli Jews have almost claimed the entire atrocity for themselves. It is almost as if Jewish lives are held in greater esteem than those of others.

No doubt in my mind too that a great deal of people died in those camps, not by execution, but by disease, caused, ironically, by allied bombs.

Obviously, had they not been falsely imprisoned to begin with, then they would not have been placed in that position.

I have no personal knowledge of the holocaust, but I do remember my dad telling me stories about what he had seen during some of the concentration camps he saw and had helped to liberate. There is no doubt in my mind as to what has actually happened there. I have also known several elderly Jewish men that have the tatoo's on their forearm. Between what my father had told me, what they had told me and what I have read about and seen in some older history films there is no doubt what so ever. As to the amount of people that were killed in those camps, well we will probably never know for sure but the numbers were high.

There are those that will deny that it had happened. For what reason, who knows. Just as here are those that believe that we have never been in space either. Thee are those that believe and those that do not believe.

But, those that were there, know what happened. That truth cannot be denied.

Old Timer wrote:There are those that will deny that it had happened. For what reason, who knows

The usual motive, esp from those who really twist the truth, is to attempt to convince the masses that these camps were not built with the purposes of execution in mind, for Jews, or anyone else.

For those that promote this idea, it is important to them, for if they can succeed, then they can clean up the image of Nazism of that time.

There are many today who still embrace the original ideals of National Socialism (not to be confused with Socialism!), but they know that for as long as they have the ball and chain of the camps around their neck, their political idealogy would be rejected by the masses.

Therefore, in order to reach the masses, and convince them that National Socialism is a 'sound' idea, they must first convince them that no programme of execution was ever ordered.

But the hard evidence, the camps themself and the films will always be there. All nations including our own always want to whitewash what they have done hoping that the next generation or two will soon forget.

Cartoon Head wrote:http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml

With all due respect. If one were to believe all that was written then one would be a total idiot. There are both truths and not truths. The full truthfull story will never be known.

Old Timer wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml

With all due respect. If one were to believe all that was written then one would be a total idiot. There are both truths and not truths. The full truthfull story will never be known.

Well that is true.

And that can be argued about anything, at any point in history.

To an extent, we are all at the mercy of the truth that is given to us.

Cartoon Head wrote:

Old Timer wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml

With all due respect. If one were to believe all that was written then one would be a total idiot. There are both truths and not truths. The full truthfull story will never be known.

Well that is true.

And that can be argued about anything, at any point in history.

To an extent, we are all at the mercy of the truth that is given to us.

Well my friend I really do think that you have hit the nail on the head with that statement.

We are only allowed to have what our respective governments want us to have for the prupose of protecting the general public. Or on a need to know basis only. Or as I see they want to keep the idiots, just that idiots.

Old Timer wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:

Old Timer wrote:

Cartoon Head wrote:http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml

With all due respect. If one were to believe all that was written then one would be a total idiot. There are both truths and not truths. The full truthfull story will never be known.

Well that is true.

And that can be argued about anything, at any point in history.

To an extent, we are all at the mercy of the truth that is given to us.

Well my friend I really do think that you have hit the nail on the head with that statement.

We are only allowed to have what our respective governments want us to have for the prupose of protecting the general public. Or on a need to know basis only. Or as I see they want to keep the idiots, just that idiots.

Of course, you can seek alternate sources of info, and these days there are plenty of them, on the net, from the sublime to the ridiculous.

However, the problem comes when it is the party line that you are trying to DISprove.

If, for example, the party line is that 9/11 was done by some Saudi's, and that Bin Laden was at the heart of it, it is v hard to prove that the entire US Government might be telling a lie.

You can find bits and pieces, but people will just say it is a conspiracy theory.

Perhaps we are too hard wired to thinking 'our Governments wouldn't do that'...