Are RC's Christians?
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CarolinaHound
Americanadian
thomasjay
Old Timer
HotParadox
Theophilus
Cartoon Head
11 posters
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Are RC's Christians?
Are RC's Christians?
*Shrugs*
I always assumed it was just another 'branch' of the generic Christianity religion.
Seems some others think different.
My mother is a RC, being of Maltese/Italian background, seems to think so.
Imo, even as someone who isn't of any faith, I agree with her.
Surely if you believe that CHRIST was the son of god, you are, by definition, a CHRISTian..? Thererfore, Catholics are Christian...
Or have I missed something?
I always assumed it was just another 'branch' of the generic Christianity religion.
Seems some others think different.
My mother is a RC, being of Maltese/Italian background, seems to think so.
Imo, even as someone who isn't of any faith, I agree with her.
Surely if you believe that CHRIST was the son of god, you are, by definition, a CHRISTian..? Thererfore, Catholics are Christian...
Or have I missed something?
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: Are RC's Christians?
I am not an expert. I would have to say yes. They believe in the new testament. So I am sure they would take John 3:16 to heart.
They are born again through the blood of Christ.
To me it seems just one version of many forms of christianity.
Though very different from some the newer forms of the religion.
They are born again through the blood of Christ.
To me it seems just one version of many forms of christianity.
Though very different from some the newer forms of the religion.
Theophilus-
Number of posts : 914
Location : Beautiful Northern California.
Humor : I miss the humor in what people say at times.
Registration date : 2009-01-15
Re: Are RC's Christians?
I would say yes, they are. But I've seen some Catholics claim they aren't Christian, and I've seen some Christians say that Catholics aren't Christian. (I think it mostly has to do with the fact that Catholicism also believes in praying to Saints, the Virgin Mary, etc.) Oddly enough, while watching Religulous last night they did a bit in Italy near the Vatican (they weren't allowed to do it IN the Vatican, so they did it outside of it). It turns out among Italian Catholics Jesus Christ is the person that they pray to 6th most often. Thought that was interesting. I'll see if I can find a youtube video of the bit, the guy he interviewed was AWESOME.
Guest- Guest
Re: Are RC's Christians?
Listen to Mummy because they most certainly are Christians and were the original organized deal.
Here is the criteria:
Unlike Mormons, JW, and the UCC's (all cults)
and like Protestants such as Born Agains, Pentecostals, and other fundies (all pompous)
they believe in the Resurrection, The Virgin Birth, and the Trinity.
Don't listen to these arrogant Protestant, over-the-top knowitall tools.
The end.
P.S. Before I get any hate mail, I am a Protestant Born Again fundie.
See, there are some of us who aren't pompous, arrogant over-the-top tools.
Here is the criteria:
Unlike Mormons, JW, and the UCC's (all cults)
and like Protestants such as Born Agains, Pentecostals, and other fundies (all pompous)
they believe in the Resurrection, The Virgin Birth, and the Trinity.
Don't listen to these arrogant Protestant, over-the-top knowitall tools.
The end.
P.S. Before I get any hate mail, I am a Protestant Born Again fundie.
See, there are some of us who aren't pompous, arrogant over-the-top tools.
HotParadox-
Number of posts : 4051
Location : Boston
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: Are RC's Christians?
HotParadox wrote:Listen to Mummy because they most certainly are Christians and were the original organized deal.
Here is the criteria:
Unlike Mormons, JW, and the UCC's (all cults)
and like Protestants such as Born Agains, Pentecostals, and other fundies (all pompous)
they believe in the Resurrection, The Virgin Birth, and the Trinity.
Don't listen to these arrogant Protestant, over-the-top knowitall tools.
The end.
P.S. Before I get any hate mail, I am a Protestant Born Again fundie.
See, there are some of us who aren't pompous, arrogant over-the-top tools.
So what is the essential difference between Protestantism and Catholicism, as it has caused the loss of life, historically, and recently as well?
Is the Virgin Mary (sic), an essential part of the difference?
Do Protestants resent the reverence given to her?
And if so, why so?
After all, she did only give birth to the son of god.
Surely that must be worth tilting your hat at?
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: Are RC's Christians?
lisan23 wrote:I would say yes, they are. But I've seen some Catholics claim they aren't Christian, and I've seen some Christians say that Catholics aren't Christian. (I think it mostly has to do with the fact that Catholicism also believes in praying to Saints, the Virgin Mary, etc.) Oddly enough, while watching Religulous last night they did a bit in Italy near the Vatican (they weren't allowed to do it IN the Vatican, so they did it outside of it). It turns out among Italian Catholics Jesus Christ is the person that they pray to 6th most often. Thought that was interesting. I'll see if I can find a youtube video of the bit, the guy he interviewed was AWESOME.
I would say you have summarised that well.
Just an observation, but for all it's autocratic ways, there does appear some benefit to Catholics having an effective 'leader', as in the Pope, which I think is French, for pa pa, 'father'. Maybe not. The fact that they have a single leader, able to exert so much influence on Catholics, has led to better control over modern Catholicism than it has modern Islam, which has no single figurehead, if you take my logic?
HP mentions the word cult, and to be honest, what is the difference between a cult and a religion, as in my eyes the difference is often not visible.
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: Are RC's Christians?
Cartoon Head wrote:lisan23 wrote:I would say yes, they are. But I've seen some Catholics claim they aren't Christian, and I've seen some Christians say that Catholics aren't Christian. (I think it mostly has to do with the fact that Catholicism also believes in praying to Saints, the Virgin Mary, etc.) Oddly enough, while watching Religulous last night they did a bit in Italy near the Vatican (they weren't allowed to do it IN the Vatican, so they did it outside of it). It turns out among Italian Catholics Jesus Christ is the person that they pray to 6th most often. Thought that was interesting. I'll see if I can find a youtube video of the bit, the guy he interviewed was AWESOME.
I would say you have summarised that well.
Just an observation, but for all it's autocratic ways, there does appear some benefit to Catholics having an effective 'leader', as in the Pope, which I think is French, for pa pa, 'father'. Maybe not. The fact that they have a single leader, able to exert so much influence on Catholics, has led to better control over modern Catholicism than it has modern Islam, which has no single figurehead, if you take my logic?
HP mentions the word cult, and to be honest, what is the difference between a cult and a religion, as in my eyes the difference is often not visible.
If we go by the technical definition of cult, any organized religion is a cult.
Guest- Guest
Re: Are RC's Christians?
The Bible says we are not supposed to pray to saints or Mary or the dead, or confess sins to anyone other than God/Jesus, for instance. Small stuff like that, that is inconsequential and has their noses out of joint. America's WASP's think that Catholics are declasse because Catholic roots are not deeply seated in freaking England, like theirs. The Protestant/Catholic hate in Ireland has nothing to do about difference of interpreting the Bible. It's all about hate and politics. Nice, huh?
HotParadox-
Number of posts : 4051
Location : Boston
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: Are RC's Christians?
HotParadox wrote:The Bible says we are not supposed to pray to saints or Mary or the dead, or confess sins to anyone other than God/Jesus, for instance. Small stuff like that, that is inconsequential and has their noses out of joint. America's WASP's think that Catholics are declasse because Catholic roots are not deeply seated in freaking England, like theirs. The Protestant/Catholic hate in Ireland has nothing to do about difference of interpreting the Bible. It's all about hate and politics. Nice, huh?
Yup.
But same seems to go on in all major religions.
Look at the history of in fighting between Muslim sects, for example?
All fighting over the least little point, and psychotic enough to actually kill for their 'belief'.
Sad.
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: Are RC's Christians?
HotParadox wrote:The Bible says we are not supposed to pray to saints or Mary or the dead, or confess sins to anyone other than God/Jesus, for instance.
Oh.
Why not, btw?
What would happen if you did, and what is wrong with it, if it happened to bring the person a certain peace in their life?
Just asking...
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: Are RC's Christians?
Yes and true to lisan and The Head because if you want to get technical, Christianity is a cult offshoot of Judaism.lisan23 wrote:Cartoon Head wrote:lisan23 wrote:I would say yes, they are. But I've seen some Catholics claim they aren't Christian, and I've seen some Christians say that Catholics aren't Christian. (I think it mostly has to do with the fact that Catholicism also believes in praying to Saints, the Virgin Mary, etc.) Oddly enough, while watching Religulous last night they did a bit in Italy near the Vatican (they weren't allowed to do it IN the Vatican, so they did it outside of it). It turns out among Italian Catholics Jesus Christ is the person that they pray to 6th most often. Thought that was interesting. I'll see if I can find a youtube video of the bit, the guy he interviewed was AWESOME.
I would say you have summarised that well.
Just an observation, but for all it's autocratic ways, there does appear some benefit to Catholics having an effective 'leader', as in the Pope, which I think is French, for pa pa, 'father'. Maybe not. The fact that they have a single leader, able to exert so much influence on Catholics, has led to better control over modern Catholicism than it has modern Islam, which has no single figurehead, if you take my logic?
HP mentions the word cult, and to be honest, what is the difference between a cult and a religion, as in my eyes the difference is often not visible.
If we go by the technical definition of cult, any organized religion is a cult.
But as far as what the Bible states, the three faiths I named as cults are not considered of Christian ideology because you cannot/nohow/noway be a Christian and not believe in the Resurrection, the Virginal Birth and, of course, the Trinity.
HotParadox-
Number of posts : 4051
Location : Boston
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: Are RC's Christians?
Nothing is going to happen and if it brings peace to people and that is part of their deal, do it. Again it is not a big Biblical no-no. People should just mind their business. Including me.Cartoon Head wrote:HotParadox wrote:The Bible says we are not supposed to pray to saints or Mary or the dead, or confess sins to anyone other than God/Jesus, for instance.
Oh.
Why not, btw?
What would happen if you did, and what is wrong with it, if it happened to bring the person a certain peace in their life?
Just asking...
HotParadox-
Number of posts : 4051
Location : Boston
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: Are RC's Christians?
HotParadox wrote:Yes and true to lisan and The Head because if you want to get technical, Christianity is a cult offshoot of Judaism.lisan23 wrote:Cartoon Head wrote:lisan23 wrote:I would say yes, they are. But I've seen some Catholics claim they aren't Christian, and I've seen some Christians say that Catholics aren't Christian. (I think it mostly has to do with the fact that Catholicism also believes in praying to Saints, the Virgin Mary, etc.) Oddly enough, while watching Religulous last night they did a bit in Italy near the Vatican (they weren't allowed to do it IN the Vatican, so they did it outside of it). It turns out among Italian Catholics Jesus Christ is the person that they pray to 6th most often. Thought that was interesting. I'll see if I can find a youtube video of the bit, the guy he interviewed was AWESOME.
I would say you have summarised that well.
Just an observation, but for all it's autocratic ways, there does appear some benefit to Catholics having an effective 'leader', as in the Pope, which I think is French, for pa pa, 'father'. Maybe not. The fact that they have a single leader, able to exert so much influence on Catholics, has led to better control over modern Catholicism than it has modern Islam, which has no single figurehead, if you take my logic?
HP mentions the word cult, and to be honest, what is the difference between a cult and a religion, as in my eyes the difference is often not visible.
If we go by the technical definition of cult, any organized religion is a cult.
But as far as what the Bible states, the three faiths I named as cults are not considered of Christian ideology because you cannot/nohow/noway be a Christian and not believe in the Resurrection, the Virginal Birth and, of course, the Trinity.
Mormons believe in the Holy Ghost, God, and Jesus... they just don't believe they're all the same thing. (Which, honestly, is kind of logical.)
Guest- Guest
Re: Are RC's Christians?
Lol, I just applied logic to religion... which is completely illogical. Nice.
Guest- Guest
Re: Are RC's Christians?
HotParadox wrote: Christianity is a cult offshoot of Judaism. .
Very true that.
And here's something else.
It is absolutely fair to assert that the three Abrahamic faiths seem to attract more violent fundies, than any other religion, new or old.
I don't see Buddists strapping semtex to themselves, in their protests.
And for all that I think it is whacked, I have yet to see Scientoligists actually killing by the thousands, in the name of Ron L Hubbard.
Why is this I wonder?
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: Are RC's Christians?
HotParadox wrote:Nothing is going to happen and if it brings peace to people and that is part of their deal, do it. Again it is not a big Biblical no-no. People should just mind their business. Including me.Cartoon Head wrote:HotParadox wrote:The Bible says we are not supposed to pray to saints or Mary or the dead, or confess sins to anyone other than God/Jesus, for instance.
Oh.
Why not, btw?
What would happen if you did, and what is wrong with it, if it happened to bring the person a certain peace in their life?
Just asking...
Yeah, but if states in the bible that mary is to be essentially airbrushed, and given no real reverence, and the bible is the word of god, it might seem petty to me and you, yet to many it is VERY important. Worth killing for. So, important to them, it seems, but if the bible doesn't approve, then why would Catholics want to do it? And if nowt bad would happen in having a little prayer to Mary, then why would god not want that? She was the mother of jesus, after all, we are told.
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: Are RC's Christians?
Well, The Trinity is very difficult to understand, so I don't blame them tbh, and they are living their faith, so whatever.lisan23 wrote:HotParadox wrote:Yes and true to lisan and The Head because if you want to get technical, Christianity is a cult offshoot of Judaism.lisan23 wrote:Cartoon Head wrote:lisan23 wrote:I would say yes, they are. But I've seen some Catholics claim they aren't Christian, and I've seen some Christians say that Catholics aren't Christian. (I think it mostly has to do with the fact that Catholicism also believes in praying to Saints, the Virgin Mary, etc.) Oddly enough, while watching Religulous last night they did a bit in Italy near the Vatican (they weren't allowed to do it IN the Vatican, so they did it outside of it). It turns out among Italian Catholics Jesus Christ is the person that they pray to 6th most often. Thought that was interesting. I'll see if I can find a youtube video of the bit, the guy he interviewed was AWESOME.
I would say you have summarised that well.
Just an observation, but for all it's autocratic ways, there does appear some benefit to Catholics having an effective 'leader', as in the Pope, which I think is French, for pa pa, 'father'. Maybe not. The fact that they have a single leader, able to exert so much influence on Catholics, has led to better control over modern Catholicism than it has modern Islam, which has no single figurehead, if you take my logic?
HP mentions the word cult, and to be honest, what is the difference between a cult and a religion, as in my eyes the difference is often not visible.
If we go by the technical definition of cult, any organized religion is a cult.
But as far as what the Bible states, the three faiths I named as cults are not considered of Christian ideology because you cannot/nohow/noway be a Christian and not believe in the Resurrection, the Virginal Birth and, of course, the Trinity.
Mormons believe in the Holy Ghost, God, and Jesus... they just don't believe they're all the same thing. (Which, honestly, is kind of logical.)
The easiest way to understand the Trinity:
An egg is one thing, but consisting of three very distinct parts. Without anyone of them, you don't have an egg.
The egg is The Trinity.
The shell is Jesus,
the white is the Holy Ghost
and the yolk is God.
The only way to the yolk (God) is through the shell (Jesus) and the white (The Holy Spirit).
One What (Trinity) and Three Who's (God/JC/Holy Ghost)
HotParadox-
Number of posts : 4051
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Re: Are RC's Christians?
The Bible does not airbrush her or diminish her in any way. On the contrary. God chose her to be Jesus's mother, after all. You are just not supposed to worship anyone other than God/Jesus. I don't think praying to her is worshiping her as some Protestants do. But it is praying to the dead, so they get in a huff about that.Cartoon Head wrote:HotParadox wrote:Nothing is going to happen and if it brings peace to people and that is part of their deal, do it. Again it is not a big Biblical no-no. People should just mind their business. Including me.Cartoon Head wrote:HotParadox wrote:The Bible says we are not supposed to pray to saints or Mary or the dead, or confess sins to anyone other than God/Jesus, for instance.
Oh.
Why not, btw?
What would happen if you did, and what is wrong with it, if it happened to bring the person a certain peace in their life?
Just asking...
Yeah, but if states in the bible that mary is to be essentially airbrushed, and given no real reverence, and the bible is the word of god, it might seem petty to me and you, yet to many it is VERY important. Worth killing for. So, important to them, it seems, but if the bible doesn't approve, then why would Catholics want to do it? And if nowt bad would happen in having a little prayer to Mary, then why would god not want that? She was the mother of jesus, after all, we are told.
You come to me and say, "Valerie I am lost, sad, hurting (whatever your problem) will you pray for me?" So I do. And that is what we are supposed to do for each other. In fact, I pray for you every day, tbh with you.
Now, if I ask Mary to pray (intercede) to God for me, What's the huge difference?
HotParadox-
Number of posts : 4051
Location : Boston
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Re: Are RC's Christians?
[quote="HotParadox" quote The Bible does not airbrush her or diminish her in any way. On the contrary. God chose her to be Jesus's mother, after all. You are just not supposed to worship anyone other than God/Jesus. I don't think praying to her is worshiping her as some Protestants do. But it is praying to the dead, so they get in a huff about that.
You come to me and say, "Valerie I am lost, sad, hurting (whatever your problem) will you pray for me?" So I do. And that is what we are supposed to do for each other. In fact, I pray for you every day, tbh with you.
Now, if I ask Mary to pray (intercede) to God for me, What's the huge difference?[/quote]
I would have thought, with your Italian backgournd, that you might have been RC, tbh.
Okay, I understand the part about the bible saying that mary, this chosen women as you rightly state, is not ever to 'worship' her, whatever that happens to involve.
What I don't understand is why the bible would stipulate that?
If she was special enough to be chosen, does it not follow that if there is worshipping to be done, then a little something to a lady so unique, should be positively encouraged in the bible?
Or do you think there is an element of mysoginy, in a cultural sense, as to when that part was written?
>>>>>> Arrrrrrrrr, Jim Lad.
You come to me and say, "Valerie I am lost, sad, hurting (whatever your problem) will you pray for me?" So I do. And that is what we are supposed to do for each other. In fact, I pray for you every day, tbh with you.
Now, if I ask Mary to pray (intercede) to God for me, What's the huge difference?[/quote]
I would have thought, with your Italian backgournd, that you might have been RC, tbh.
Okay, I understand the part about the bible saying that mary, this chosen women as you rightly state, is not ever to 'worship' her, whatever that happens to involve.
What I don't understand is why the bible would stipulate that?
If she was special enough to be chosen, does it not follow that if there is worshipping to be done, then a little something to a lady so unique, should be positively encouraged in the bible?
Or do you think there is an element of mysoginy, in a cultural sense, as to when that part was written?
>>>>>> Arrrrrrrrr, Jim Lad.
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: Are RC's Christians?
Made a right cock socket of that one.
Sorry!
Sorry!
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: Are RC's Christians?
Just very simply, nobody is to be an idol or worshiped, because they are human, fallible and not God. I don't think past that, tbh.Cartoon Head wrote:HotParadox wrote: quote The Bible does not airbrush her or diminish her in any way. On the contrary. God chose her to be Jesus's mother, after all. You are just not supposed to worship anyone other than God/Jesus. I don't think praying to her is worshiping her as some Protestants do. But it is praying to the dead, so they get in a huff about that.
You come to me and say, "Valerie I am lost, sad, hurting (whatever your problem) will you pray for me?" So I do. And that is what we are supposed to do for each other. In fact, I pray for you every day, tbh with you.
Now, if I ask Mary to pray (intercede) to God for me, What's the huge difference?
I would have thought, with your Italian backgournd, that you might have been RC, tbh.
Okay, I understand the part about the bible saying that mary, this chosen women as you rightly state, is not ever to 'worship' her, whatever that happens to involve.
What I don't understand is why the bible would stipulate that?
If she was special enough to be chosen, does it not follow that if there is worshipping to be done, then a little something to a lady so unique, should be positively encouraged in the bible?
Or do you think there is an element of mysoginy, in a cultural sense, as to when that part was written?
>>>>>> Arrrrrrrrr, Jim Lad.
HotParadox-
Number of posts : 4051
Location : Boston
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Re: Are RC's Christians?
HotParadox wrote:Just very simply, nobody is to be an idol or worshiped, because they are human, fallible and not God. I don't think past that, tbh.Cartoon Head wrote:HotParadox wrote: quote The Bible does not airbrush her or diminish her in any way. On the contrary. God chose her to be Jesus's mother, after all. You are just not supposed to worship anyone other than God/Jesus. I don't think praying to her is worshiping her as some Protestants do. But it is praying to the dead, so they get in a huff about that.
You come to me and say, "Valerie I am lost, sad, hurting (whatever your problem) will you pray for me?" So I do. And that is what we are supposed to do for each other. In fact, I pray for you every day, tbh with you.
Now, if I ask Mary to pray (intercede) to God for me, What's the huge difference?
I would have thought, with your Italian backgournd, that you might have been RC, tbh.
Okay, I understand the part about the bible saying that mary, this chosen women as you rightly state, is not ever to 'worship' her, whatever that happens to involve.
What I don't understand is why the bible would stipulate that?
If she was special enough to be chosen, does it not follow that if there is worshipping to be done, then a little something to a lady so unique, should be positively encouraged in the bible?
Or do you think there is an element of mysoginy, in a cultural sense, as to when that part was written?
>>>>>> Arrrrrrrrr, Jim Lad.
But jesus was a flesh and blood human, no?
Also, dosen't all these almost petulant and greedy demands for TOTAL devotion sound like something utterly vain to you?
In this context..?
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: Are RC's Christians?
Jesus is 100% human and 100% God, so no I would not call it vanity, no, because he is 100% God. But I will tell you that God is a jealous God. Not jealous in the way we use the word, but jealous in that we are to worship just Him and the faithful will be rewarded and...
...you already know all this stuff and how I feel because we've been over it a gazillion times for years, you and I.
Again I'll throw this in there: If you ask and answer your own questions, what do you need me for?
...you already know all this stuff and how I feel because we've been over it a gazillion times for years, you and I.
Again I'll throw this in there: If you ask and answer your own questions, what do you need me for?
HotParadox-
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Re: Are RC's Christians?
HotParadox wrote:Jesus is 100% human and 100% God, so no I would not call it vanity, no, because he is 100% God. But I will tell you that God is a jealous God. Not jealous in the way we use the word, but jealous in that we are to worship just Him and the faithful will be rewarded and...
...you already know all this stuff and how I feel because we've been over it a gazillion times for years, you and I.
Again I'll throw this in there: If you ask and answer your own questions, what do you need me for?
To correct me if I am wrong?
Same with anyone.
It's all questions and discourse.
True?
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: Are RC's Christians?
I don't know if you are wrong but I know what the Bible says, that's all I really know.Cartoon Head wrote:HotParadox wrote:Jesus is 100% human and 100% God, so no I would not call it vanity, no, because he is 100% God. But I will tell you that God is a jealous God. Not jealous in the way we use the word, but jealous in that we are to worship just Him and the faithful will be rewarded and...
...you already know all this stuff and how I feel because we've been over it a gazillion times for years, you and I.
Again I'll throw this in there: If you ask and answer your own questions, what do you need me for?
To correct me if I am wrong?
Same with anyone.
It's all questions and discourse.
True?
BTW, I misspoke when I said I was Protestant. When I go to church, I go to an Evangelical one because I like it and I like how they don't weasel their way around the Bible and pick and choose. You can take it or leave it.
But to define myself as anything other than a pure Christian is wrong of me.
I don't like organized religions and subscribe to none.
I really just have a simple faith in God that I pledge allegiance to.
HotParadox-
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Re: Are RC's Christians?
As is your right and privledge here. More power to ya for using it.
Old Timer-
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Re: Are RC's Christians?
Getting back to this bizoid about cults.
As we have established, all religions are technically cults.
The main one's are merely those that survived best.
And yet, we have the paradox of one organised religion calling another perhaps more 'unorthodox' a cult, and spreading propaganda about the teachings of that 'cult'.
Now, here is a thing.
I know from past experience that you do not really appreciate it if you feel that someone is mocking your religion, correct?
And (this is for debate only!), I have heard many people say the same thing to many others - 'Hey, you shouldn't say that, it is mocking my religion'.
Which the person may or may not be, that is a moot point.
What matters is that the people I find (not nesc you, okay!), who most often take offence at having their religion mocked, can be the first off the mark to laugh at another religion, esp if it doesn't happen to relate to what they see as 'normal', if you see what I mean.
To a Christian in New York, the world is going to be seen through v different eyes to the Buddist monk.
Which is the next thing.
There are many religions out there.
Some are very old.
Some are relatively new.
Why should a new religion be up for a bit of a ribbing, when the same thing would bring a defensive reaction from those that don't like their beleif system (if they have one), mocked?
Comments?
Anyone?
Lisa?
Val?
Guys?
PS - Why are the Abrahamic faiths attacted more radical(violent) followers, when the like of Buddism and Sikhsim has not?
As we have established, all religions are technically cults.
The main one's are merely those that survived best.
And yet, we have the paradox of one organised religion calling another perhaps more 'unorthodox' a cult, and spreading propaganda about the teachings of that 'cult'.
Now, here is a thing.
I know from past experience that you do not really appreciate it if you feel that someone is mocking your religion, correct?
And (this is for debate only!), I have heard many people say the same thing to many others - 'Hey, you shouldn't say that, it is mocking my religion'.
Which the person may or may not be, that is a moot point.
What matters is that the people I find (not nesc you, okay!), who most often take offence at having their religion mocked, can be the first off the mark to laugh at another religion, esp if it doesn't happen to relate to what they see as 'normal', if you see what I mean.
To a Christian in New York, the world is going to be seen through v different eyes to the Buddist monk.
Which is the next thing.
There are many religions out there.
Some are very old.
Some are relatively new.
Why should a new religion be up for a bit of a ribbing, when the same thing would bring a defensive reaction from those that don't like their beleif system (if they have one), mocked?
Comments?
Anyone?
Lisa?
Val?
Guys?
PS - Why are the Abrahamic faiths attacted more radical(violent) followers, when the like of Buddism and Sikhsim has not?
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: Are RC's Christians?
I really don't know why new religions get so much flack. And I do agree that usually the first ones to point a finger at another religion are the same ones that get offended if you poke fun of their religion.
And I have no idea with your PS either.
You should really watch Religulous, that's all it's about. Why do Christians mock Scientology - isn't believing in aliens just as crazy as believing in God?
And I have no idea with your PS either.
You should really watch Religulous, that's all it's about. Why do Christians mock Scientology - isn't believing in aliens just as crazy as believing in God?
Guest- Guest
Re: Are RC's Christians?
I know this was meant for Steve, but I'm just answering both of you here, because you're nicer!lisan23 wrote:I really don't know why new religions get so much flack. And I do agree that usually the first ones to point a finger at another religion are the same ones that get offended if you poke fun of their religion.
And I have no idea with your PS either.
You should really watch Religulous, that's all it's about. Why do Christians mock Scientology - isn't believing in aliens just as crazy as believing in God?
I don't think anyone's religion should be poked fun at either. If I say that a religion is a cult, I mean by Christian standards, just as Christianity could be viewed as a cult by Jews. I was careful to say that in my first post, and I don't mock anyone's faith or lack of because, frankly, what you or anyone else believes in...I don't really give a sweet turd.
Oh ya, to your P/S. Aren't they more philosophies than religions?
Still, Jesus was of course, a great philosopher and why wars are created in His name or Allah's name explain to explain why to me faith in God/Allah trumps organized religions.
Last edited by HotParadox on Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
HotParadox-
Number of posts : 4051
Location : Boston
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Re: Are RC's Christians?
lisan23 wrote:I really don't know why new religions get so much flack. And I do agree that usually the first ones to point a finger at another religion are the same ones that get offended if you poke fun of their religion.
And I have no idea with your PS either.
You should really watch Religulous, that's all it's about. Why do Christians mock Scientology - isn't believing in aliens just as crazy as believing in God?
I agree with you absolutely.
That is a v good post.
The reason why new religions get so much flak is two fold, imo.
First of, hey, a new an accepting religion might just prove more popular than the aggressors within Islam, or the 'shame' that Catholic Priests make their followers feel (for no reason).
Second- arrogance. They rigidly believe only they have the 'truth', and therefore it is okay to debase another religion or philosophy, since it is not their own.
Re Scientology. I am no follower. But for all their bad press, hey, they haven't killed in the name of their religion, you are right on that, as well.
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: Are RC's Christians?
HotParadox wrote:I know this was meant for Steve, but I'm just answering both of you here, because you're nicer!lisan23 wrote:I really don't know why new religions get so much flack. And I do agree that usually the first ones to point a finger at another religion are the same ones that get offended if you poke fun of their religion.
And I have no idea with your PS either.
You should really watch Religulous, that's all it's about. Why do Christians mock Scientology - isn't believing in aliens just as crazy as believing in God?
I don't think anyone's religion should be poked fun at either. If I say that a religion is a cult, I mean by Christian standards, just as Christianity could be viewed as a cult by Jews. I was careful to say that in my first post, and I don't mock anyone's faith or lack of because, frankly, what you or anyone else believes in...I don't really give a sweet turd.
Okay.
But would you respect Hindusim (for example), in the same status as you would Christianity?
How about one of the new religions?
Do you think that all of them might carry a little piece of the truth, rather than any one religion having the whole 'truth'?
Like a puzzle...
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: Are RC's Christians?
Let me re post my post since there is an edit:
HotParadox wrote:I know this was meant for Steve, but I'm just answering both of you here, because you're nicer!
I don't think anyone's religion should be poked fun at either. If I say that a religion is a cult, I mean by Christian standards, just as Christianity could be viewed as a cult by Jews. I was careful to say that in my first post, and I don't mock anyone's faith or lack of because, frankly, what you or anyone else believes in...I don't really give a sweet turd.
Oh ya, to your P/S. Aren't they more in the category of philosophies, rather than religions?
Still, Jesus was of course, a great philosopher and why wars are created in His name or Allah's name explains to me why faith in God/Allah trumps organized religions.
No, I would not and I do not. I respect all people and their right to worship aliens if they want, but I do not value their religions, other than for historical reasons, but not for the religions, no.Cartoon Head wrote:
Okay.
But would you respect Hindusim (for example), in the same status as you would Christianity?
How about one of the new religions?
Do you think that all of them might carry a little piece of the truth, rather than any one religion having the whole 'truth'?
Like a puzzle...
HotParadox-
Number of posts : 4051
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Re: Are RC's Christians?
And you would feel it is your right, re freedom of speech to question someone on their beleifs? That is natural right?
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: Are RC's Christians?
Perhaps some of the newer religions are even more closer to 'truth', since man has moved on a lot in 2000 years, right?
I mean, a book on engineering written 2000 years ago could not compare to that of now. Just one example. And perhaps the same is true of new religions?
Just a thought....
I mean, a book on engineering written 2000 years ago could not compare to that of now. Just one example. And perhaps the same is true of new religions?
Just a thought....
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: Are RC's Christians?
No. I really don't feel it is my right and I believe it is rude other than a courtesy question or two.. It's not my style. Whatever they believe in, I don't care to question them. If it comes up (I have a lot of Muslim and Jewish friends and atheists, too) I'm the one who listens, nods my head and says, wow, that's cool. If you actually knew me, you would say, YUP, that's you. And you would know that I am a very private person.Cartoon Head wrote:And you would feel it is your right, re freedom of speech to question someone on their beleifs? That is natural right?
Now, if people or friends ask me about my faith, I share it gladly, but if they start with what I perceive to be mocking my faith, I defend my faith and cut it short. TBH, my friends wouldn't do that to me. We are in total disagreement over religions but we have respect for each other as friends. I do not expect my friends to respect or like my faith; just me.
Last edited by HotParadox on Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
HotParadox-
Number of posts : 4051
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Re: Are RC's Christians?
HotParadox wrote:No. I really don't feel it is my right and I believe it is rude other than a courtesy question or two.. It's not my style. Whatever they believe in, I don't care to question them. If it comes up (I have a lot of Muslim and Jewish friends and atheists, too) I'm the one who listens, nods my head and says, wow, that's cool. If you actually knew me, you would say, YUP, that's you. And you would know that I am a very private person.Cartoon Head wrote:And you would feel it is your right, re freedom of speech to question someone on their beleifs? That is natural right?
Now, if people or friends ask me about my faith, I share it gladly, but if they start with what I perceive to me mocking my faith, I defend my faith and cut it short. TBH, my friends wouldn't do that to me. We are in total disagreement over religions but we have respect for each other as friends.
So you consider it to be impossible for someone to like you, even if they thought your religous beleifs and only those, to be BS?
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: Are RC's Christians?
OPPS, you didn't catch my edit again to my above post:
"TBH, my friends wouldn't do that to me. We are in total disagreement over religions but we have respect for each other as friends. I do not expect my friends to respect or like my faith; just me. Just respect and like me, in other words, and I will like and respect you regardless of your faith or lack of.
I don't know, but religion is a bigger deal to you than it is to me, I don't care about it with people. Live and let live and leave me alone, basically, and I'll do the same for you.
I like to keep friendships very simple. I will give you the shirt off my back to help you, but I really don't want to annoy you or be annoyed by you. Not you, but you know, the collective you.
"TBH, my friends wouldn't do that to me. We are in total disagreement over religions but we have respect for each other as friends. I do not expect my friends to respect or like my faith; just me. Just respect and like me, in other words, and I will like and respect you regardless of your faith or lack of.
I don't know, but religion is a bigger deal to you than it is to me, I don't care about it with people. Live and let live and leave me alone, basically, and I'll do the same for you.
I like to keep friendships very simple. I will give you the shirt off my back to help you, but I really don't want to annoy you or be annoyed by you. Not you, but you know, the collective you.
HotParadox-
Number of posts : 4051
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Re: Are RC's Christians?
HotParadox wrote:OPPS, you didn't catch my edit again to my above post:
"TBH, my friends wouldn't do that to me. We are in total disagreement over religions but we have respect for each other as friends. I do not expect my friends to respect or like my faith; just me. Just respect and like me, in other words, and I will like and respect you regardless of your faith or lack of.
I don't know, but religion is a bigger deal to you than it is to me, I don't care about it with people. Live and let live and leave me alone, basically, and I'll do the same for you.
I like to keep friendships very simple. I will give you the shirt off my back to help you, but I really don't want to annoy you or be annoyed by you. Not you, but you know, the collective you.
Good post.
And yet, without meaning to, there have been times when people have not been intending to attack or upset you, when they use a term like 'magic friend in the sky', when they are referring to god. Or 'cosmic jewish zombie' when referring to Jesus. And you can take that the wrong way, HP.
As I said before, I think that if we did have a creator(s), then the odds are that they would be so highly developed that they would also have an acute sense of humour, the god or gods would be able to laugh at themselves, and be self effacing.
Btw, are you actually proposing to take your shirt off, and then post pics here?
Cartoon Head- Number of posts : 1661
Registration date : 2009-01-13
Re: Are RC's Christians?
I Don't know how else to take 'magic friend in the sky', when they are referring to god. Or 'cosmic jewish zombie' when referring to Jesus. If you're a Muslim and I refer to Allah as the 'Rag Head Carpet Bagger', you might take a little offense. If you want to call Jesus names, I think it's a little offensive to do it when you're talking to Christians. And how is that sort of derogatory talk not done without meaning to offend?Cartoon Head wrote:HotParadox wrote:OPPS, you didn't catch my edit again to my above post:
"TBH, my friends wouldn't do that to me. We are in total disagreement over religions but we have respect for each other as friends. I do not expect my friends to respect or like my faith; just me. Just respect and like me, in other words, and I will like and respect you regardless of your faith or lack of.
I don't know, but religion is a bigger deal to you than it is to me, I don't care about it with people. Live and let live and leave me alone, basically, and I'll do the same for you.
I like to keep friendships very simple. I will give you the shirt off my back to help you, but I really don't want to annoy you or be annoyed by you. Not you, but you know, the collective you.
Good post.
And yet, without meaning to, there have been times when people have not been intending to attack or upset you, when they use a term like 'magic friend in the sky', when they are referring to god. Or 'cosmic jewish zombie' when referring to Jesus. And you can take that the wrong way, HP.
As I said before, I think that if we did have a creator(s), then the odds are that they would be so highly developed that they would also have an acute sense of humour, the god or gods would be able to laugh at themselves, and be self effacing.
Btw, are you actually proposing to take your shirt off, and then post pics here?
Yes, when I said that I would take the shirt off my back for you, I really meant it in the literal sense. Keep watching this site for updates on how I'm doing, getting my shirt off and for when I'll be posting the pictures. I will keep you abreast.
HotParadox-
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