I am fed up with all of this BS!!!

I think all of us here have pretty good heads on these shoulders of ours and I think for the most part we're all pretty plugged in to what's happening around us.

But I think I've pretty much had it with all of this stupid finger pointing and blame game.

Democrats vs Repulicans - It's all BULLSHIT!!!

When are we going to realize that both sides are the exact same? Both sides are constantly pointing fingers at the other side and saying "Look at those elitists. They're ruining our country." Both sides, claim they try to do the right thing but get railroaded by the other side. Both sides take credit for any success and blame the other for every failure.

Republicans - "Our governent and economy is failing because of Obama"

Democrats - "Our government and economy is failing because of Bush's policies and the bad 8 years under him."

Republicans - "It was Clinton's policies that made it bad for Bush"

Democrats - "Clinton prospered with his policies"

Republicans - "Clinton prospered because of Reagan and Bush Sr. poicies"

It is never ending. Each party wants all the credit and none of the blame. It's not the Democrats ruining everything, and it's not the Republicans ruining everything, they're both ruining everything. The problem is the general public is too apathetic to do anything about it. Nothing is going to change until the masses wake up and take a stand.

I'll leave you with lyrics from a song.

In the right light, study becomes insight
But the system that dissed us
Teaches us to read and write

So-called facts are fraud
They want us to allege and pledge
And bow down to their God
Lost the culture, the culture lost
Spun our minds and through time
Ignorance has taken over
We gotta take the power back
Bam, Here's the plan
Mother fuck Uncle Sam
Step back, I know who I am
Raise up your ear, I'll drop the style and clear
It's the beast and lyrics they fear
The rage is relentless
We need a movement with quickness
You are the witness of change
And to counteract
We gotta take the power back


The president curriculums
I put my fist in 'em
Eurocentric every last one of 'em
See right through the red, white and blue disguise
With lecture, I puncture the structure of lies
Installed in our minds and attempting
To hold us back
We've got to take it back
'Cause holes in our spirits causin' tears and fears
One-sided stories for years and years and years
I'm inferior? Who's inferior?
Yea, we needa check the interior
Of the system who cares about only one culture
And that is why
We gotta take the power back


The teacher stands in front of the class
But the lesson plan he can't recall
The student's eyes don't percieve the lies
Bouncing of every fucking wall
His composure is well kept
I guess he fears playing the fool
The complacent students sit and listen to the
Bull shit that he learned in school

Europe ain't my rope to swing on
Can't learn a thing from it
Yet we hang from it
Gotta get it, gotta get it together then
Like the mother fuckin weathermen
To expose and close the doors on those who try
To strangle and mangle the truth
'Cause the circle of hatred continues unless we react
We gotta take the power back

I hear ya brother.
The problem is that there are assholes on both sides that instigate things and make it very challenging to work "together".

Every politician in Washington should be replaced immediately.

I absolutely agree. At this point one term is enough for these idiots. But lifetime politicians should be out of the question. They are nothing but trouble.
Seniority should have nothing to do with committee...it should be based on background and education. (You know...actual qualifications.)

JReed wrote:I absolutely agree. At this point one term is enough for these idiots. But lifetime politicians should be out of the question. They are nothing but trouble.
Seniority should have nothing to do with committee...it should be based on background and education. (You know...actual qualifications.)

Qualifications?!? JR where do you come up with such revolutionary new concepts? Tell me more!!!

Abso-F-----g-lutely However, IMO anyway... we're too indoctrinated, as a society, in the "2 party system".

[quote="PaulM"]Abso-F-----g-lutely However, IMO anyway... we're too indoctrinated, as a society, in the "2 party system".[/quote]

Same in England, I always find it amusing that we have a two party democracy, with both the parties being pretty much identical.

"The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste time voting" - Charles Bukowski

(Also, putting a word inside another word is called tmesis, which I think is the only word in English to begin tm.)

Big Slick wrote:I think all of us here have pretty good heads on these shoulders of ours and I think for the most part we're all pretty plugged in to what's happening around us.

But I think I've pretty much had it with all of this stupid finger pointing and blame game.

Democrats vs Repulicans - It's all BULLSHIT!!!

When are we going to realize that both sides are the exact same? Both sides are constantly pointing fingers at the other side and saying "Look at those elitists. They're ruining our country." Both sides, claim they try to do the right thing but get railroaded by the other side. Both sides take credit for any success and blame the other for every failure.

Republicans - "Our governent and economy is failing because of Obama"

Democrats - "Our government and economy is failing because of Bush's policies and the bad 8 years under him."

Republicans - "It was Clinton's policies that made it bad for Bush"

Democrats - "Clinton prospered with his policies"

Republicans - "Clinton prospered because of Reagan and Bush Sr. poicies"

It is never ending. Each party wants all the credit and none of the blame. It's not the Democrats ruining everything, and it's not the Republicans ruining everything, they're both ruining everything. The problem is the general public is too apathetic to do anything about it. Nothing is going to change until the masses wake up and take a stand.

amen slick. but honestly - i don't see it happening. the main reason as i see it:

FEAR OF THE GOVERNMENT is an epidemic among the masses. americans don't have the courage to stand up to their politicians, nor the stomach for the REALITY of what they might learn in the process. they believe it's safer and easier to just go with the flow.....

great post.

CV

Hang on a second...

I think it's great that on this forum, we have the ability to discuss many issues and often manage to put our partisan beliefs on the back burner. This forum is by far, the most civil of any I have ever posted on. In my opinion, the reason it's that way, is because we all seem to have a mutual respect for each other as PEOPLE.

With that said...

This is a POLITICAL FORUM. The reason we are here is to debate our respective sides of the political fence. As often as we see our beliefs as being right, we also see the other sides beliefs as being wrong... That's what it's all about.

If we take the "dem vs. rep", and "lib vs. con" aspect out of the discussion, then we are nothing more than a "current events" forum... And I have to be honest with you... That would bore me to tears.

The last few days, we have all (well, nearly all) come together and had a forum wide agreement that those in Washington, democrat and republican, have let the American people down on this AIG/bailout bullshit. Mutual agreement like this is a very pleasant exception, but it still doesn't change the fact we all have our own separate beliefs on politics in general.

Democrats/liberals still piss me off just as much today, as they always have. The only difference is, when I express my displeasure with the left on this forum, I believe that everyone here knows that no matter what I may say to any of you, it's not personal. You know that when the battle is over, and the subject is changed, I can be an alie to the person that I had just ripped apart, or had ripped me apart.

That's just how I see it...

And I'm not trying to take any of that away, Grim. But as a political forum I think it also relevant to point out the flaws in our politics as they are today.

I think even you will admit that both parties are saying the same basic BS. They are both blaming each other for the bad and both taking credit for the good. Surely you can see how silly that is, right?

I have no doubt that if political parties did not exist we would still have plenty of politics to talk about on here. I'm just saying it doesn't matter what they call themselves they're all saying the same crap.

Big Slick wrote:And I'm not trying to take any of that away, Grim. But as a political forum I think it also relevant to point out the flaws in our politics as they are today.

And I think we do a fine job of doing that.

I think even you will admit that both parties are saying the same basic BS. They are both blaming each other for the bad and both taking credit for the good. Surely you can see how silly that is, right?

Yes, they always blame each other and take credit even if it isn't due to them, but there is a big difference between the two.

I have no doubt that if political parties did not exist we would still have plenty of politics to talk about on here. I'm just saying it doesn't matter what they call themselves they're all saying the same crap.

I agree that our political system is screwed up, and both sides play fast and loose with the truth, but their fundamental beliefs on what policies are best for the country, couldn't be more different. Both sides may have agreed that bailing out the banks was the right thing to do, but both sides couldn't be more split on all the spending being done by the Obama administration, via his numerous stimulus packages.

The policies being implemented by the democrats, and the monumental spending those policies require, are going to do irreparable damage to the country. You can't tell me that if the republicans controlled things, they would be doing this shit.

Grim17 wrote:Hang on a second...

I think it's great that on this forum, we have the ability to discuss many issues and often manage to put our partisan beliefs on the back burner. This forum is by far, the most civil of any I have ever posted on. In my opinion, the reason it's that way, is because we all seem to have a mutual respect for each other as PEOPLE.

With that said...

This is a POLITICAL FORUM. The reason we are here is to debate our respective sides of the political fence. As often as we see our beliefs as being right, we also see the other sides beliefs as being wrong... That's what it's all about.

If we take the "dem vs. rep", and "lib vs. con" aspect out of the discussion, then we are nothing more than a "current events" forum... And I have to be honest with you... That would bore me to tears.

The last few days, we have all (well, nearly all) come together and had a forum wide agreement that those in Washington, democrat and republican, have let the American people down on this AIG/bailout bullshit. Mutual agreement like this is a very pleasant exception, but it still doesn't change the fact we all have our own separate beliefs on politics in general.

Democrats/liberals still piss me off just as much today, as they always have. The only difference is, when I express my displeasure with the left on this forum, I believe that everyone here knows that no matter what I may say to any of you, it's not personal. You know that when the battle is over, and the subject is changed, I can be an alie to the person that I had just ripped apart, or had ripped me apart.

That's just how I see it...

as a mod i have to give all of you props. what we have here is a bunch of people who sit on opposite sides of the political fence, but are skillful debaters who understand their political stances very well, and are open to learning: ie not closed minded. you guys, for the most part, attack the subject and not each other. it makes for the most intelligent and interesting kind of debates, seen mostly in professional speakers of yesterday. today, even the pros make it personal and that, to me, is the most boring debate of all. the topics get lost in the muddle of personal insults and little is learned of the actual topic and of the opposing viewpoints pertaining to the topic. to be on a forum and hear nothing but personal insults does not help others, who are not as knowledgeable as you, make decisions about the matters being presented. kudos. you guys are the cream of the crop.

HotMod

Grim17 wrote:
The policies being implemented by the democrats, and the monumental spending those policies require, are going to do irreparable damage to the country. You can't tell me that if the republicans controlled things, they would be doing this shit.

Hell yes they would!!!! Don't you see that's my point. They absolutely would, the only difference would be they'd be fighting over what it should be spent on.

Both sides will say to the people, "All they want to do is spend and they think that's the answer, but we want to cut the budget"

But yet the budget gets bigger and bigger every year regardless who is in office. Below are the years, budget presented and who presented them. Notice the trend?

2010 - $3.6 trillion (submitted 2009 by President Obama)
2009 - $3.10 trillion (submitted 2008 by President Bush)
2008 - $2.90 trillion (submitted 2007 by President Bush)
2007 - $2.77 trillion (submitted 2006 by President Bush)
2006 - $2.7 trillion (submitted 2005 by President Bush)
2005 - $2.4 trillion (submitted 2004 by President Bush)
2004 - $2.3 trillion (submitted 2003 by President Bush)
2003 - $2.2 trillion (submitted 2002 by President Bush)
2002 - $2.0 trillion (submitted 2001 by President Bush)
2001 - $1.9 trillion (submitted 2000 by President Clinton)
2000 - $1.8 trillion (submitted 1999 by President Clinton)
1999 - $1.7 trillion (submitted 1998 by President Clinton)
1998 - $1.7 trillion (submitted 1997 by President Clinton)
1997 - $1.6 trillion (submitted 1996 by President Clinton)
1996 - $1.6 trillion (submitted 1995 by President Clinton)

Spending goes up no matter who is in office and the other side bitches because it's too much.

I really do wish that I had the background and ability to express myself like you guys do. This being a politicial forum, and all agreeing that a real change needs to be put in place. For example having those that wish to serve their country and not themselves in office for a limited term. Those that would put America first and not another country that will just steal what we wanted to give to the poor of that nation. Why can't that be debated and a solution arrived at insead of just debating about what he said, she said all of the time. If we don't get our act together and soon the curtain just might come down for the final act.

On BBC news this morning: With the worlds population as it is and getting larger every day, there is a perfect storm coming when food, energy and water will be in short supply.

It sure seems to me like the time to start to pull togethjer is now and not next year or next election, that could be to late. Then it wont make any difference if a democrat or republican or whatever is in office will it.

Big Slick wrote:I think all of us here have pretty good heads on these shoulders of ours and I think for the most part we're all pretty plugged in to what's happening around us.

But I think I've pretty much had it with all of this stupid finger pointing and blame game.

Democrats vs Repulicans - It's all BULLSHIT!!!

When are we going to realize that both sides are the exact same? Both sides are constantly pointing fingers at the other side and saying "Look at those elitists. They're ruining our country." Both sides, claim they try to do the right thing but get railroaded by the other side. Both sides take credit for any success and blame the other for every failure.

Republicans - "Our governent and economy is failing because of Obama"

Democrats - "Our government and economy is failing because of Bush's policies and the bad 8 years under him."

Republicans - "It was Clinton's policies that made it bad for Bush"

Democrats - "Clinton prospered with his policies"

Republicans - "Clinton prospered because of Reagan and Bush Sr. poicies"

It is never ending. Each party wants all the credit and none of the blame. It's not the Democrats ruining everything, and it's not the Republicans ruining everything, they're both ruining everything. The problem is the general public is too apathetic to do anything about it. Nothing is going to change until the masses wake up and take a stand.

I'll leave you with lyrics from a song.

In the right light, study becomes insight
But the system that dissed us
Teaches us to read and write

So-called facts are fraud
They want us to allege and pledge
And bow down to their God
Lost the culture, the culture lost
Spun our minds and through time
Ignorance has taken over
We gotta take the power back
Bam, Here's the plan
Mother fuck Uncle Sam
Step back, I know who I am
Raise up your ear, I'll drop the style and clear
It's the beast and lyrics they fear
The rage is relentless
We need a movement with quickness
You are the witness of change
And to counteract
We gotta take the power back


The president curriculums
I put my fist in 'em
Eurocentric every last one of 'em
See right through the red, white and blue disguise
With lecture, I puncture the structure of lies
Installed in our minds and attempting
To hold us back
We've got to take it back
'Cause holes in our spirits causin' tears and fears
One-sided stories for years and years and years
I'm inferior? Who's inferior?
Yea, we needa check the interior
Of the system who cares about only one culture
And that is why
We gotta take the power back


The teacher stands in front of the class
But the lesson plan he can't recall
The student's eyes don't percieve the lies
Bouncing of every fucking wall
His composure is well kept
I guess he fears playing the fool
The complacent students sit and listen to the
Bull shit that he learned in school

Europe ain't my rope to swing on
Can't learn a thing from it
Yet we hang from it
Gotta get it, gotta get it together then
Like the mother fuckin weathermen
To expose and close the doors on those who try
To strangle and mangle the truth
'Cause the circle of hatred continues unless we react
We gotta take the power back

You do make a valid point.

Big Slick wrote:

Grim17 wrote:
The policies being implemented by the democrats, and the monumental spending those policies require, are going to do irreparable damage to the country. You can't tell me that if the republicans controlled things, they would be doing this shit.

Hell yes they would!!!! Don't you see that's my point. They absolutely would, the only difference would be they'd be fighting over what it should be spent on.

Both sides will say to the people, "All they want to do is spend and they think that's the answer, but we want to cut the budget"

But yet the budget gets bigger and bigger every year regardless who is in office. Below are the years, budget presented and who presented them. Notice the trend?

2010 - $3.6 trillion (submitted 2009 by President Obama)
2009 - $3.10 trillion (submitted 2008 by President Bush)
2008 - $2.90 trillion (submitted 2007 by President Bush)
2007 - $2.77 trillion (submitted 2006 by President Bush)
2006 - $2.7 trillion (submitted 2005 by President Bush)
2005 - $2.4 trillion (submitted 2004 by President Bush)
2004 - $2.3 trillion (submitted 2003 by President Bush)
2003 - $2.2 trillion (submitted 2002 by President Bush)
2002 - $2.0 trillion (submitted 2001 by President Bush)
2001 - $1.9 trillion (submitted 2000 by President Clinton)
2000 - $1.8 trillion (submitted 1999 by President Clinton)
1999 - $1.7 trillion (submitted 1998 by President Clinton)
1998 - $1.7 trillion (submitted 1997 by President Clinton)
1997 - $1.6 trillion (submitted 1996 by President Clinton)
1996 - $1.6 trillion (submitted 1995 by President Clinton)

Spending goes up no matter who is in office and the other side bitches because it's too much.

That is a false comparison Slick. It doesn't take into account all the stimulus and bailout bills Obama has implemented, and plans to implement. This is what you should be looking at:

2009 - Budget deficit $1.75 trillion
2008 - Budget deficit $459 billion
2007 - Budget deficit $162 billion
2006 - Budget deficit $248 billion
2005 - Budget deficit $318 billion
2004 - Budget deficit $412 billion
2003 - Budget deficit $377 billion
2002 - Budget deficit $158 billion

The budget deficit was just over 3% of the GDP in the last two years (2007-2008) of the Bush administration, which most economists will tell you, is manageable. Right now, our current budget deficit under president Obama is sitting at 12% of the GDP, nearly 4 times higher than it was last year.

It's common knowledge that president Bush spent way too much money, which is not what conservatives and the GOP stand for. Labeling president Bush as a "typical" republican, is not an accurate label. Real conservative republicans are for tax cuts, less spending and smaller government. Based on how badly Bush performed in the "less spending" area, republicans lost their ass... They won't make that mistake again anytime in the near future.

Spending and expanding government has always been what democrats are all about, and Obama and the democratically controlled senate and congress lived up to label in the first two weeks after Bush left office.

The bottom line is, all this spending has got to stop before it's too late. I'm afraid whether people like it or not, republicans are the only chance we have to stop this runaway train, since it has become clear that the democrats have no intention of changing their ways.

Peregrine(Endangered) wrote:On BBC news this morning: With the worlds population as it is and getting larger every day, there is a perfect storm coming when food, energy and water will be in short supply.
Really in the end this is what will bring civilization down..we needed procreation in the begining to get us going but we need to slow way down if we're going to survive!

LOL...just offer an incentive program for men to volunteer for vasectomies. Good population control and it doesn't affect any performance.

Oh yeah, BTW. China and India have the problems with population growth. China implemented a one child per family only policy to try to contain the growth. However, they already have too many. They may need to quit having any for a few years.