Can discrimination ever be justified?

The automatic answer to the title of this thread would, for most people, be a 'no', discrimation can never be just, and is a dangerous road to go down.

Are there exceptions to this, though?

Let me illustrate an extreme example.

According to official reports, the men who carried out the Twin Towers attacks were Muslim.

Equally, the men who planted bombs on UK buses and the underground, were also Muslims.

The doctors who tried to ram a Scottish airport were Muslim.

All very radical in their thought and action, of course, but all Muslim, nonetheless.

They had something else in common, as well.

They either had all their required papers, or were actually born here.

So I am asking you this.

Thankfully, the examples I gave, while terrible, have been isolated.

However, were they to increase, let us say that the US or UK suffered 12 bomb incidents, from Muslims either native born, or with the right papers, at that point, do you think it would be just to make a registration of Muslims, after which every one of them would be resettled back to lands which preached their religion?

There are quite a number, therefore, I would imagine their choice to be possibly wide?

Yes, it is radical, however, if it were to assure the safety of the people at large?

How far is too far?

Would legislation ordering all Muslims to leave be too far?

Would a ban on any Muslims coming in, even for business or holiday, be too far?

Would airlines that dedicated their own planes, just for Muslims, be too far?

This thread is for conversation only, and does not reflect my own thoughts, by default.

Rememer the attack on Pearl Harbour? The Japanese internment? The results of your scenario would quite possibly cause an reenactment of those days.

Old Timer wrote:Rememer the attack on Pearl Harbour? The Japanese internment? The results of your scenario would quite possibly cause an reenactment of those days.

I know of it, of course, but not being alive then, I cannot say how many Japanese were living in the US at the time, or what befell them.

I am assuming it was not good, right..?

There were thousands interned, some even right here in my state of Wyoming. Many of them were good and honest american citizens but it did not matter. And no it was not good.

Old Timer wrote:There were thousands interned, some even right here in my state of Wyoming. Many of them were good and honest american citizens but it did not matter. And no it was not good.

And you could see a repeat of that, perhaps? Innocent Muslims interned? Until what? I suppose I am just underscoring the point that media generated hysteria, be it about Japanese, Jews, whatever, only ever leads to a negative outcome.

Some seem to think otherwise, hence we see the same things being done, time and again.

History does have a way of repeating itself. It is always a possibility as well as deporation is.

Old Timer wrote:History does have a way of repeating itself. It is always a possibility as well as deporation is.

And how do you suppose, under the circumstances, the general US population would react?

Would they buy the hype, support this wrong?

Or would they have the moral fortitude, make a stand against it?

Something to mull over..

Nopoe I have no doubt as to what we would do. You seem to forget what most folks call us here. It is "those crazy americans".

Old Timer wrote:Nopoe I have no doubt as to what we would do. You seem to forget what most folks call us here. It is "those crazy americans".

Doesnn't matter the nationality, American or not.

In the right conditions, the above scenario could be orchestrated in any nation.

The trick is not to let it get to that point, which is why false fear and Islamophobia must always be checked, should they surface.

But it won't happen that way given human nature. I remember watching the planes hit the twin towers on 9/11. When I found out who was responsible, I swear to you if there had been any muslim from anywhere male or female or child standing in front of me I would have attacked them and more than likely killed them. I was that angered. And yes I really do believe that if something really bad such as a nuclear weapon were to be set off here by them that, that kind of scenario would indeed happen only worse.

Old Timer wrote:But it won't happen that way given human nature. I remember watching the planes hit the twin towers on 9/11. When I found out who was responsible, I swear to you if there had been any muslim from anywhere male or female or child standing in front of me I would have attacked them and more than likely killed them. I was that angered. And yes I really do believe that if something really bad such as a nuclear weapon were to be set off here by them that, that kind of scenario would indeed happen only worse.

There we go then.

See how easy it is to create the set of circumstances that would cause you to react as brutally as that?

Proves my point, no?

Right after the attack on Pearl Harbor, while on board his flag ship Admiral Yamamoto was quoted as saying. I am afraid that we have awaken a sleeping giant and that there is no way that we can win this war.

All joking set aside as history can atest to, it really doesn't pay to piss off this country to much as we have a habit of reacting rather strongly at times. I am also sure athat the same can be applied to both the british and the french as well as a few other countries.

there is no point to prove or disprove by what you state. There is action and reaction, one mostly depends on the other.

Old Timer wrote:Right after the attack on Pearl Harbor, while on board his flag ship Admiral Yamamoto was quoted as saying. I am afraid that we have awaken a sleeping giant and that there is no way that we can win this war.

All joking set aside as history can atest to, it really doesn't pay to piss off this country to much as we have a habit of reacting rather strongly at times. I am also sure athat the same can be applied to both the british and the french as well as a few other countries.

there is no point to prove or disprove by what you state. There is action and reaction, one mostly depends on the other.

But it can never be just to take out your anger for the actions of a few, on the many, esp women and children?

Once you cross that line, what do you become?

Tell that to the families that have lost their love ones to those that set off bombs in a crowded market place. or to those that lost their family members on 9/11. as the old saying goes. You mess with me and my family, well me and my family, were gonna mess with you.

Call it what you will action-reaction, tit for tat, an eye fo an eye, it really doesn't matter does it? right o wrong it will happen like that

Old Timer wrote:Tell that to the families that have lost their love ones to those that set off bombs in a crowded market place. or to those that lost their family members on 9/11. as the old saying goes. You mess with me and my family, well me and my family, were gonna mess with you.

Call it what you will action-reaction, tit for tat, an eye fo an eye, it really doesn't matter does it? right o wrong it will happen like that

BS.

It would be called murder.

And it would have been called murder had you indeed seen a Muslim child or woman, and killed them, as you stated.

You would not be typing this now, I suspect.

that may well be true, but that is what happens in real life, not some ficticious scenario.

Old Timer wrote:that may well be true, but that is what happens in real life, not some ficticious scenario.

No.

That would be real life.

And in real life you have choice.

You have the choice to be a rational human being, or let go of that humanity, and be no better than a Nazi, during the Reich of Germany.

All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing.

Steve, you are a really nice guy but sometimes I think that you live in a dream world of what if and why not. Have a great day guy.

Huh?

It is a 'dream world' NOT to want to murder an innocent women or child?

And you are anti cannabis?

I think you NEED some!

As long as there are humans there is Ego and from that ego often emerges insecurities and the desire to have the advantage of power, dominion and control over others; Yes, because of this, discrimination will always exist.

Oh yes. It will exist, of course, Coontie. But it is possible not to be suckered into the matrix of it, huh?

Doing so can have terrible consequences.

Just reflect on OT's admission that he would have hurt, possibly murdered, and innocent women or child, if he thought they had been one of 'them'.

No offence, but I would like to think I would not react that way.

Maybe that's just me...

The Ghost Of Yeah Well Fi wrote:Oh yes. It will exist, of course, Coontie. But it is possible not to be suckered into the matrix of it, huh?

Doing so can have terrible consequences.

Just reflect on OT's admission that he would have hurt, possibly murdered, and innocent women or child, if he thought they had been one of 'them'.

No offence, but I would like to think I would not react that way.

Maybe that's just me...

good point - I will get back to you regarding this - interesting topic! Actually, with ANY one of us, will our "heart-of-hearts" [EGO] self allow the truth to be revealed and therfore comprimise ourself, at our own "hand"? This is a part of the protective/survival mechanism of the Ego. It is seemingly with us ALL; For that matter, is it really possible for any one of us to "out ourself" with the truth to others? This possibility hinges upon sheer, raw honesty.

I have found out through experience that no one can really tell what they will or will not do under any given circumstance. We often like to think how we would react but in reality it can often be just the opposite. When I made that statement about what I thought I might do had it been a man, woman or child, I was remembering how I felt that day. Knowing how I have reacted to different circumstances in my life it is highly possoble I might have done that to a man or even possibly a woman if I had thought she was in anyway associated, but not to a child now that I think about it.

It has been proven many times that under trying times the toughest bully has wet his pants turned and ran in combat but the coward was the one that got the job done. Until you have done certian things in your life it would be best to only say that you would like to THINK that is what you would have done and not WHAT you would have done.

As the old indian saying goes; Do not judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes.

Old Timer wrote:I have found out through experience that no one can really tell what they will or will not do under any given circumstance. We often like to think how we would react but in reality it can often be just the opposite. When I made that statement about what I thought I might do had it been a man, woman or child, I was remembering how I felt that day. Knowing how I have reacted to different circumstances in my life it is highly possoble I might have done that to a man or even possibly a woman if I had thought she was in anyway associated, but not to a child now that I think about it.

It has been proven many times that under trying times the toughest bully has wet his pants turned and ran in combat but the coward was the one that got the job done. Until you have done certian things in your life it would be best to only say that you would like to THINK that is what you would have done and not WHAT you would have done.

As the old indian saying goes; Do not judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes.

There are some things I would just never do.

Murdering an innocent child, because he happened to be Muslim, no matter what had happened prior, that would be one of them, since this was mentioned.