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the speech

Post by Old Timer on Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:25 pm

I see that some one has pegged obama right with this--Obama's Islamic homage wins praise-----Yes indeed folks he did indeed pay homage to the muslims, but then hasn't he always been kissing their buts.

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Re: the speech

Post by HotParadox on Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:30 pm


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Re: the speech

Post by Old Timer on Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:05 pm

HotParadox wrote:here's an interesting article on your topic, ot:
http://www.americansfortheconstitution.com/voice-of-the-people/obama-the-muslim


it is not only interesting but the truth as well

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Re: the speech

Post by Kazza on Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:28 pm

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Re: the speech

Post by DM007 on Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:13 am

Eloquent speech. Again.

Also, another nail in the coffin for the US. The only positive "American" points fell on deaf ears. His audience had remained essentially unchanged for more than 2000 years. Nothing changed after the speech.

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Re: the speech

Post by PaulM on Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:13 am

From what I've heard and read about the speech it appears he was attempting to hit all the right buttons at the right times. The audience seemed rather cool to many of his points & just responded with "polite" applause.
Bottom line... will he actually back up what he says with policy... especially with regards to Israel & the Palistinians? Personally, I don't think he's got the nads to stand up to Israel.

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Re: the speech

Post by Big Slick on Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:04 am

Personally I don't see what the problem is. I think it's a good thing that he is trying to repair relationships with the middle eastern countries. It is foolish to think we can keep making more enemies over there and then wonder why they don't cooperate with us in times of crises. Haven't you ever heard you catch more flies with honey than vinegar?

In my opinion we need to keep trying to bury the hatchet with all of our former enemies. That includes Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, all of them.

I don't get why it's soooooo 'merican and patriotic to keep making enemies at every turn. All we're doing is digging our own grave. We absolutely need to be making peace with all of the Muslim countries. The US can not continue down this ignorant path of perpepuating hatred. We are going to end up alienating ourselves until it's just us and Israel against the rest of the world.

Ignorant Americans need to put their bible thumping discrimination aside and start seeing the bigger picture. We're supposed to be the leader of the free world, not the bully of the freeworld. It's time we start acting like it.
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Re: the speech

Post by Big Slick on Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:13 am

HotParadox wrote:here's an interesting article on your topic, ot:
http://www.americansfortheconstitution.com/voice-of-the-people/obama-the-muslim

HP, OT - Parden my language, but this article is bullshit!!!

I won't even get into whether or not he is or is not actually a muslim. My problem with this is, does it matter? Are we as Americans so ignorant that we have to vote for a Christian President? I'm sorry I must have missed the part in the Constitution about one of the qualifications to run for president is that you have to be a Christian. It doesn't matter if someone is Muslim, Hindu, Buddist, or Athiest for that matter. Would you be upset if you went for a job interview and they asked you what religion you were. Oh you're a Christian, sorry we don't employ Christians.

C'mon people wake up this is the same thing as saying he shouldn't be in office because he's black. No difference.
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Re: the speech

Post by PaulM on Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:19 am

Big Slick wrote:Personally I don't see what the problem is. I think it's a good thing that he is trying to repair relationships with the middle eastern countries. It is foolish to think we can keep making more enemies over there and then wonder why they don't cooperate with us in times of crises. Haven't you ever heard you catch more flies with honey than vinegar?

In my opinion we need to keep trying to bury the hatchet with all of our former enemies. That includes Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, all of them.

I don't get why it's soooooo 'merican and patriotic to keep making enemies at every turn. All we're doing is digging our own grave. We absolutely need to be making peace with all of the Muslim countries. The US can not continue down this ignorant path of perpepuating hatred. We are going to end up alienating ourselves until it's just us and Israel against the rest of the world.

Ignorant Americans need to put their bible thumping discrimination aside and start seeing the bigger picture. We're supposed to be the leader of the free world, not the bully of the freeworld. It's time we start acting like it.

Don't get me wrong... I think you're right... we need to have more friends than enemies. However, the speech reminded me of all talk & damn little action. If he can get us out of Iraq and stand up to Israel he will have gone a long way toward scoring points in my book.

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Re: the speech

Post by HotParadox on Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:12 pm

Big Slick wrote:
HotParadox wrote:here's an interesting article on your topic, ot:
http://www.americansfortheconstitution.com/voice-of-the-people/obama-the-muslim

HP, OT - Parden my language, but this article is bullshit!!!

I won't even get into whether or not he is or is not actually a muslim. My problem with this is, does it matter? Are we as Americans so ignorant that we have to vote for a Christian President? I'm sorry I must have missed the part in the Constitution about one of the qualifications to run for president is that you have to be a Christian. It doesn't matter if someone is Muslim, Hindu, Buddist, or Athiest for that matter. Would you be upset if you went for a job interview and they asked you what religion you were. Oh you're a Christian, sorry we don't employ Christians.

C'mon people wake up this is the same thing as saying he shouldn't be in office because he's black. No difference.
wait, bs!
i made no comment whatsoever on the article other than:
"here's an interesting article on your topic, ot".

i also made no comment, nada, regarding our president, one's race, sexual orientation, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Buddists, Athiests or anything else you referred to.

but i'll answer you anyway:i don't care what you are or who you are. if you're a decent, honest person you're cool with me. if you're my president, i also could give a rat's ass, as long as your a good one.


Last edited by HotParadox on Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: the speech

Post by Big Slick on Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:14 pm

HotParadox wrote:
Big Slick wrote:
HotParadox wrote:here's an interesting article on your topic, ot:
http://www.americansfortheconstitution.com/voice-of-the-people/obama-the-muslim

HP, OT - Parden my language, but this article is bullshit!!!

I won't even get into whether or not he is or is not actually a muslim. My problem with this is, does it matter? Are we as Americans so ignorant that we have to vote for a Christian President? I'm sorry I must have missed the part in the Constitution about one of the qualifications to run for president is that you have to be a Christian. It doesn't matter if someone is Muslim, Hindu, Buddist, or Athiest for that matter. Would you be upset if you went for a job interview and they asked you what religion you were. Oh you're a Christian, sorry we don't employ Christians.

C'mon people wake up this is the same thing as saying he shouldn't be in office because he's black. No difference.
wait, bs!
i made no comment whatsoever on the article other than:
"here's an interesting article on your topic, ot".

i also made no comment, nada, regarding our president, one's race, sexual orientation, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Buddists, Athiests or anything else you referred to.

but i'll answer you anyway:i don't care what you are or who you are. if you're a decent, honest person you're cool with me. if you're my president, i also could give a rat's ass, as long as your a good one.

HP, my comments were aimed at the article not you. I addressed you because you posted it. I wasn't saying you are bs. The article is BS and my reason for thinking that.

Sorry if I led you to believe it was directed at you personally.
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Re: the speech

Post by HotParadox on Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:33 pm

Big Slick wrote:
HotParadox wrote:
Big Slick wrote:
HotParadox wrote:here's an interesting article on your topic, ot:
http://www.americansfortheconstitution.com/voice-of-the-people/obama-the-muslim

HP, OT - Parden my language, but this article is bullshit!!!

I won't even get into whether or not he is or is not actually a muslim. My problem with this is, does it matter? Are we as Americans so ignorant that we have to vote for a Christian President? I'm sorry I must have missed the part in the Constitution about one of the qualifications to run for president is that you have to be a Christian. It doesn't matter if someone is Muslim, Hindu, Buddist, or Athiest for that matter. Would you be upset if you went for a job interview and they asked you what religion you were. Oh you're a Christian, sorry we don't employ Christians.

C'mon people wake up this is the same thing as saying he shouldn't be in office because he's black. No difference.
wait, bs!
i made no comment whatsoever on the article other than:
"here's an interesting article on your topic, ot".

i also made no comment, nada, regarding our president, one's race, sexual orientation, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Buddists, Athiests or anything else you referred to.

but i'll answer you anyway:i don't care what you are or who you are. if you're a decent, honest person you're cool with me. if you're my president, i also could give a rat's ass, as long as your a good one.

HP, my comments were aimed at the article not you. I addressed you because you posted it. I wasn't saying you are bs. The article is BS and my reason for thinking that.

Sorry if I led you to believe it was directed at you personally.
totally understand and i get your points, too.

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Re: the speech

Post by Old Timer on Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:16 pm

HotParadox wrote:
Big Slick wrote:
HotParadox wrote:
Big Slick wrote:
HotParadox wrote:here's an interesting article on your topic, ot:
http://www.americansfortheconstitution.com/voice-of-the-people/obama-the-muslim

HP, OT - Parden my language, but this article is bullshit!!!

I won't even get into whether or not he is or is not actually a muslim. My problem with this is, does it matter? Are we as Americans so ignorant that we have to vote for a Christian President? I'm sorry I must have missed the part in the Constitution about one of the qualifications to run for president is that you have to be a Christian. It doesn't matter if someone is Muslim, Hindu, Buddist, or Athiest for that matter. Would you be upset if you went for a job interview and they asked you what religion you were. Oh you're a Christian, sorry we don't employ Christians.

C'mon people wake up this is the same thing as saying he shouldn't be in office because he's black. No difference.
wait, bs!
i made no comment whatsoever on the article other than:
"here's an interesting article on your topic, ot".

i also made no comment, nada, regarding our president, one's race, sexual orientation, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Buddists, Athiests or anything else you referred to.

but i'll answer you anyway:i don't care what you are or who you are. if you're a decent, honest person you're cool with me. if you're my president, i also could give a rat's ass, as long as your a good one.

HP, my comments were aimed at the article not you. I addressed you because you posted it. I wasn't saying you are bs. The article is BS and my reason for thinking that.

Sorry if I led you to believe it was directed at you personally.
totally understand and i get your points, too.

But when the then Gov. of Utah Gov Romney who is a mormon tried to run for President all folks could say was who wants a mormon for president. And he is more qualified for the job IMHO.
But one question if I may, if obama is kissing arab ass and brown nosing, how are we gonna be able to tell with out the brown ring aroung his nose. It seems that you would not be able to see it.

And where is this transparent government and those million of jobs just to name a few. Aint gonna happen is it.

It is simple. I don't like him, he isn't quailified and never should have been elected. We are going to pay a heavy price for that.

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Re: the speech

Post by PaulM on Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:20 pm

We should be prepared to weather a foreign image similar to that of the Carter administration... weak. I'm not saying we should go out and start more wars (Iraq) or bully other countries... respect and dialogue are good things, but all he's done is talk & all he will continue to do is talk. He's a campaigner, not a doer.

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Re: the speech

Post by HotParadox on Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:18 pm

Old Timer wrote:
HotParadox wrote:
Big Slick wrote:
HotParadox wrote:
Big Slick wrote:
HotParadox wrote:here's an interesting article on your topic, ot:
http://www.americansfortheconstitution.com/voice-of-the-people/obama-the-muslim

HP, OT - Parden my language, but this article is bullshit!!!

I won't even get into whether or not he is or is not actually a muslim. My problem with this is, does it matter? Are we as Americans so ignorant that we have to vote for a Christian President? I'm sorry I must have missed the part in the Constitution about one of the qualifications to run for president is that you have to be a Christian. It doesn't matter if someone is Muslim, Hindu, Buddist, or Athiest for that matter. Would you be upset if you went for a job interview and they asked you what religion you were. Oh you're a Christian, sorry we don't employ Christians.

C'mon people wake up this is the same thing as saying he shouldn't be in office because he's black. No difference.
wait, bs!
i made no comment whatsoever on the article other than:
"here's an interesting article on your topic, ot".

i also made no comment, nada, regarding our president, one's race, sexual orientation, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Buddists, Athiests or anything else you referred to.

but i'll answer you anyway:i don't care what you are or who you are. if you're a decent, honest person you're cool with me. if you're my president, i also could give a rat's ass, as long as your a good one.

HP, my comments were aimed at the article not you. I addressed you because you posted it. I wasn't saying you are bs. The article is BS and my reason for thinking that.

Sorry if I led you to believe it was directed at you personally.
totally understand and i get your points, too.

But when the then Gov. of Utah Gov Romney who is a mormon tried to run for President all folks could say was who wants a mormon for president. And he is more qualified for the job IMHO.
But one question if I may, if obama is kissing arab ass and brown nosing, how are we gonna be able to tell with out the brown ring aroung his nose. It seems that you would not be able to see it.

And where is this transparent government and those million of jobs just to name a few. Aint gonna happen is it.

It is simple. I don't like him, he isn't quailified and never should have been elected. We are going to pay a heavy price for that.
i agree with you ot. Mitt Romney had an uphill battle, sadly, b/c of his faith.
by the way, he was never the governor of Utah. he was the governor, and a good one, of my state, Massachusetts, where he still resides. he left the office mid-stream to concentrate on his campaign, believing that he couldn't effectively govern Massachusetts if he were busy campaigning. Jane Swift, his attorney general took over the remainder of his term and she was just awful. i wouldn't be surprised if Romney is the republican forerunner in 2012.

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Re: the speech

Post by Old Timer on Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:11 am

Obama's new stimulis package for the 600,000 or so jobs he says ist will create is a farce at best. All it will do is create motly summer employment, none of those jobs will become permanent unless the states decide to pick up the tab and now most of them are to strapped for cash. With all of our problems, he still spends a fortune raveling all over kotowing to the arabs, dinner in Paris and such. and I do like what some of the papers said about his trip to the mid east. He was paying homeage. More like swearing fealty.

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Re: the speech

Post by Big Slick on Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:40 am

Old Timer wrote:

And where is this transparent government and those million of jobs just to name a few. Aint gonna happen is it.

It is simple. I don't like him, he isn't quailified and never should have been elected. We are going to pay a heavy price for that.

And all this may turn out to be true. And if people want to cricize him for that, then I have no problem with that. However, that article was trying to equate being Muslim to being a reason he shouldn't be in office. That's ignorant and it's funny how many people out there actually still believe he's Muslim, even though he has said he's Christian.
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Re: the speech

Post by Old Timer on Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:53 am

His religion should not keep him from office. However lying about it should. and I am one of those that believe that he is lying. Although there are some that believe that he is the mesiah and can do no wrong and would neve lie. They are in for a rude awakening one day soon. and this trip to the arab world, paying homage or swearing fealty or both. Not to mention there was a lack of camera coverage at times. Maybe he didn't want to get caught bowing again.

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Re: the speech

Post by Big Slick on Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:21 am

What makes you think he is lying? Because his dad is from Kenya? Because he bows to the Saudi King? If that's what you're basing your opinion on, then you need to pull your head out of your ass and stop believing the rants coming out of the Obama hater camps.

I have seen nothing that even remotely indicates he is lying about being Muslim. Remember that first controversy about his pastor? He told everybody he had been going to that (Christian) church and Wright had been his family's pastor for years and years. Maybe he refuses to address it because he knows how insignificant the issue is and he doesn't need to address it.

I saw a national enquirer the other day that was talking about his gay affair and the cover up. Should he come out and hold a press conference and tell people he's not gay? If he doesn't, will you say he's lying about being gay? No because it's stupid. There are more important things to worry about than what religion our president is.

So he bows to the Saudi King. So what? That is what you do in foreign relations. You accept their customs. Remember when Bush was holding the King's hand and leading him around Crawford? When diplomats go to Japan they bow to the emporer. Nobody says they're kissing the asses of the Japs because they bow to them. It's called respecting their customs. Presidents have been bowing to foreign leaders since they have been visiting foreign leaders.

Quit trying to make something out of nothing.
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Re: the speech

Post by Peregrine(Endangered) on Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:34 am

"Quit trying to make something out of nothing."
My sentiments exactly!! Very Happy
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Re: the speech

Post by Old Timer on Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:35 pm

Big Slick wrote:What makes you think he is lying? Because his dad is from Kenya? Because he bows to the Saudi King? If that's what you're basing your opinion on, then you need to pull your head out of your ass and stop believing the rants coming out of the Obama hater camps.

I have seen nothing that even remotely indicates he is lying about being Muslim. Remember that first controversy about his pastor? He told everybody he had been going to that (Christian) church and Wright had been his family's pastor for years and years. Maybe he refuses to address it because he knows how insignificant the issue is and he doesn't need to address it.

I saw a national enquirer the other day that was talking about his gay affair and the cover up. Should he come out and hold a press conference and tell people he's not gay? If he doesn't, will you say he's lying about being gay? No because it's stupid. There are more important things to worry about than what religion our president is.

So he bows to the Saudi King. So what? That is what you do in foreign relations. You accept their customs. Remember when Bush was holding the King's hand and leading him around Crawford? When diplomats go to Japan they bow to the emporer. Nobody says they're kissing the asses of the Japs because they bow to them. It's called respecting their customs. Presidents have been bowing to foreign leaders since they have been visiting foreign leaders.

Quit trying to make something out of nothing.

I believe nothing of what I read and only half of what I see myself. I do however rely on my own instincts. Please do not tell me what to believe or not to believe and I will not tell you where to go. Each of us are entitled to make up our own mind in our own way. If you cannot handle that then you have a problem. I do not tell or advise anyone how or what to believe that is their own decision. All I ask is the same respect.

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Re: the speech

Post by Big Slick on Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:32 pm

Old Timer wrote:
Big Slick wrote:What makes you think he is lying? Because his dad is from Kenya? Because he bows to the Saudi King? If that's what you're basing your opinion on, then you need to pull your head out of your ass and stop believing the rants coming out of the Obama hater camps.

I have seen nothing that even remotely indicates he is lying about being Muslim. Remember that first controversy about his pastor? He told everybody he had been going to that (Christian) church and Wright had been his family's pastor for years and years. Maybe he refuses to address it because he knows how insignificant the issue is and he doesn't need to address it.

I saw a national enquirer the other day that was talking about his gay affair and the cover up. Should he come out and hold a press conference and tell people he's not gay? If he doesn't, will you say he's lying about being gay? No because it's stupid. There are more important things to worry about than what religion our president is.

So he bows to the Saudi King. So what? That is what you do in foreign relations. You accept their customs. Remember when Bush was holding the King's hand and leading him around Crawford? When diplomats go to Japan they bow to the emporer. Nobody says they're kissing the asses of the Japs because they bow to them. It's called respecting their customs. Presidents have been bowing to foreign leaders since they have been visiting foreign leaders.

Quit trying to make something out of nothing.

I believe nothing of what I read and only half of what I see myself. I do however rely on my own instincts. Please do not tell me what to believe or not to believe and I will not tell you where to go. Each of us are entitled to make up our own mind in our own way. If you cannot handle that then you have a problem. I do not tell or advise anyone how or what to believe that is their own decision. All I ask is the same respect.

So again, I ask you - What makes you believe he's lying?

Sounds like above you're saying "I think he's lying, just cause."
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Re: the speech

Post by Old Timer on Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:06 pm

Big Slick wrote:
Old Timer wrote:
Big Slick wrote:What makes you think he is lying? Because his dad is from Kenya? Because he bows to the Saudi King? If that's what you're basing your opinion on, then you need to pull your head out of your ass and stop believing the rants coming out of the Obama hater camps.

I have seen nothing that even remotely indicates he is lying about being Muslim. Remember that first controversy about his pastor? He told everybody he had been going to that (Christian) church and Wright had been his family's pastor for years and years. Maybe he refuses to address it because he knows how insignificant the issue is and he doesn't need to address it.

I saw a national enquirer the other day that was talking about his gay affair and the cover up. Should he come out and hold a press conference and tell people he's not gay? If he doesn't, will you say he's lying about being gay? No because it's stupid. There are more important things to worry about than what religion our president is.

So he bows to the Saudi King. So what? That is what you do in foreign relations. You accept their customs. Remember when Bush was holding the King's hand and leading him around Crawford? When diplomats go to Japan they bow to the emporer. Nobody says they're kissing the asses of the Japs because they bow to them. It's called respecting their customs. Presidents have been bowing to foreign leaders since they have been visiting foreign leaders.

Quit trying to make something out of nothing.

I believe nothing of what I read and only half of what I see myself. I do however rely on my own instincts. Please do not tell me what to believe or not to believe and I will not tell you where to go. Each of us are entitled to make up our own mind in our own way. If you cannot handle that then you have a problem. I do not tell or advise anyone how or what to believe that is their own decision. All I ask is the same respect.

So again, I ask you - What makes you believe he's lying?

Sounds like above you're saying "I think he's lying, just cause."
and what makes you think he is not lying

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Re: the speech

Post by Big Slick on Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:38 pm

Like I said, I have seen nothing that would lead me to believe he is.

I am not going to assume something about somebody unless there is an actual reason. Which from twice now avoiding the question would tell me that you don't really have one.
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Re: the speech

Post by CarolinaHound on Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:20 am

Big Slick wrote:Like I said, I have seen nothing that would lead me to believe he is.

I am not going to assume something about somebody unless there is an actual reason. Which from twice now avoiding the question would tell me that you don't really have one.

He's a polatician, that right there tells me not to believe anything he says... Suspect just sayin' Very Happy

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Re: the speech

Post by Old Timer on Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:38 am

CarolinaHound wrote:
Big Slick wrote:Like I said, I have seen nothing that would lead me to believe he is.

I am not going to assume something about somebody unless there is an actual reason. Which from twice now avoiding the question would tell me that you don't really have one.

He's a polatician, that right there tells me not to believe anything he says... Suspect just sayin' Very Happy

Well Big slick, it seems our little debate will have to wait for a while. I have had a rather bad reaction to some new medicine and I just am not up to it at this time. But rest assured We shall continue when my health will allow.

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Re: the speech

Post by HotParadox on Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:47 am

Old Timer wrote:
CarolinaHound wrote:
Big Slick wrote:Like I said, I have seen nothing that would lead me to believe he is.

I am not going to assume something about somebody unless there is an actual reason. Which from twice now avoiding the question would tell me that you don't really have one.

He's a polatician, that right there tells me not to believe anything he says... Suspect just sayin' Very Happy

Well Big slick, it seems our little debate will have to wait for a while. I have had a rather bad reaction to some new medicine and I just am not up to it at this time. But rest assured We shall continue when my health will allow.
don't get all worked up, ot. you got your head on straight. I love you

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Re: the speech

Post by Big Slick on Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:59 am

Old Timer wrote:
CarolinaHound wrote:
Big Slick wrote:Like I said, I have seen nothing that would lead me to believe he is.

I am not going to assume something about somebody unless there is an actual reason. Which from twice now avoiding the question would tell me that you don't really have one.

He's a polatician, that right there tells me not to believe anything he says... Suspect just sayin' Very Happy

Well Big slick, it seems our little debate will have to wait for a while. I have had a rather bad reaction to some new medicine and I just am not up to it at this time. But rest assured We shall continue when my health will allow.

No worrys, man. Totally understand. You get some rest and get well.
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Re: the speech

Post by Old Timer on Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:24 am

As I am a little better I would like to state my thoughts. I firmly do believe that obama is still a muslim and has not given up his faith. I also believe that this make him a plant. As far as his bowing goes, he had no choice. You say that it is correct protocol but I saw no return bow from the king which makes it a one way street. If one is a muslin amd believes in the Koran then he could never be president and here is why. Obama is going to take this great counhtry and lead it down to ruin and he already has a good start on it.

KORAN commands to kill infidels:

Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98

On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161

Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191

Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39

Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216
(different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

..... martyrs.... Enter heaven - Surah 3:140-43

If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. - 3:157-8

You must not think that those who were slain in the cause of Allah are dead. They are alive, and well-provided for by their Lord. - Surah 3:169-71

Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of God, whether he is slain or victorious, soon we shall give him a great reward. - Surah 4:74

Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil. - 4:76

But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. - 4:89

Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred, which shall endure till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will declare to them all that they have done. - 5:14

O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54

Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme - 8:39

O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. - 8:65

It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. - 8:67

Allah will humble the unbelievers. Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. - 9:2-3

When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5

Believers! Know that idolators are unclean. - 9:28

Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. - 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.

Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah, with your wealth and your persons. - 9:41

O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73

Allah has purchased of their faithful lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, kill and be killed. - 9:111

Fight unbelievers who are near to you. 9:123 (different translation:
Believers! Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you. (another source: ) Ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers....

As for those who are slain in the cause of Allah, He will not allow their works to perish. He will vouchsafe them guidance and ennoble their state; He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them. - 10:4-15

Allah has cursed the unbelievers and proposed for them a blazing hell. - 33:60

Unbelievers are enemies of Allah and they will roast in hell. - 41:14

When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4
(different translation: ) When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.

Those who are slain in the way of Allah - he will never let their deeds be lost. Soon will he guide them and improve their condition, and admit them to the Garden, which he has announced for them. - 47:5

Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. - 48:25

Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29

Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - 66:9

The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - 98:51

Fight them so that Allah may punish them at your hands, and put them to shame. (verse cited in Newsweek 2/11/02)

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Re: the speech

Post by CarolinaHound on Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:10 pm

Old Timer wrote:As I am a little better I would like to state my thoughts. I firmly do believe that obama is still a muslim and has not given up his faith. I also believe that this make him a plant. As far as his bowing goes, he had no choice. You say that it is correct protocol but I saw no return bow from the king which makes it a one way street. If one is a muslin amd believes in the Koran then he could never be president and here is why. Obama is going to take this great counhtry and lead it down to ruin and he already has a good start on it.

KORAN commands to kill infidels:

Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98

On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161

Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191

Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39

Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216
(different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

..... martyrs.... Enter heaven - Surah 3:140-43

If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. - 3:157-8

You must not think that those who were slain in the cause of Allah are dead. They are alive, and well-provided for by their Lord. - Surah 3:169-71

Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of God, whether he is slain or victorious, soon we shall give him a great reward. - Surah 4:74

Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil. - 4:76

But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. - 4:89

Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred, which shall endure till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will declare to them all that they have done. - 5:14

O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54

Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme - 8:39

O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. - 8:65

It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. - 8:67

Allah will humble the unbelievers. Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. - 9:2-3

When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5

Believers! Know that idolators are unclean. - 9:28

Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. - 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.

Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah, with your wealth and your persons. - 9:41

O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73

Allah has purchased of their faithful lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, kill and be killed. - 9:111

Fight unbelievers who are near to you. 9:123 (different translation:
Believers! Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you. (another source: ) Ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers....

As for those who are slain in the cause of Allah, He will not allow their works to perish. He will vouchsafe them guidance and ennoble their state; He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them. - 10:4-15

Allah has cursed the unbelievers and proposed for them a blazing hell. - 33:60

Unbelievers are enemies of Allah and they will roast in hell. - 41:14

When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4
(different translation: ) When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.

Those who are slain in the way of Allah - he will never let their deeds be lost. Soon will he guide them and improve their condition, and admit them to the Garden, which he has announced for them. - 47:5

Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. - 48:25

Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29

Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - 66:9

The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - 98:51

Fight them so that Allah may punish them at your hands, and put them to shame. (verse cited in Newsweek 2/11/02)

-------

Again, It is not correct protocal to bow to the Saudi king, unless you are one of his servents. Personally I just think Obama had lousy people briefing him on what protocal should be used and he did it not knowing any better. But still it showed weakness as OT said the king did not return the bow. Why? Because it showed weakness, or Ot is right and Bambam is a plant.

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Re: the speech

Post by Big Slick on Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:52 pm

Old Timer wrote:As I am a little better I would like to state my thoughts. I firmly do believe that obama is still a muslim and has not given up his faith. I also believe that this make him a plant. As far as his bowing goes, he had no choice. You say that it is correct protocol but I saw no return bow from the king which makes it a one way street. If one is a muslin amd believes in the Koran then he could never be president and here is why. Obama is going to take this great counhtry and lead it down to ruin and he already has a good start on it.

KORAN commands to kill infidels:

Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98

On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161

Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191

Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39

Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216
(different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

..... martyrs.... Enter heaven - Surah 3:140-43

If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. - 3:157-8

You must not think that those who were slain in the cause of Allah are dead. They are alive, and well-provided for by their Lord. - Surah 3:169-71

Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of God, whether he is slain or victorious, soon we shall give him a great reward. - Surah 4:74

Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil. - 4:76

But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. - 4:89

Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred, which shall endure till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will declare to them all that they have done. - 5:14

O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54

Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme - 8:39

O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. - 8:65

It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. - 8:67

Allah will humble the unbelievers. Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. - 9:2-3

When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5

Believers! Know that idolators are unclean. - 9:28

Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. - 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.

Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah, with your wealth and your persons. - 9:41

O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73

Allah has purchased of their faithful lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, kill and be killed. - 9:111

Fight unbelievers who are near to you. 9:123 (different translation:
Believers! Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you. (another source: ) Ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers....

As for those who are slain in the cause of Allah, He will not allow their works to perish. He will vouchsafe them guidance and ennoble their state; He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them. - 10:4-15

Allah has cursed the unbelievers and proposed for them a blazing hell. - 33:60

Unbelievers are enemies of Allah and they will roast in hell. - 41:14

When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4
(different translation: ) When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.

Those who are slain in the way of Allah - he will never let their deeds be lost. Soon will he guide them and improve their condition, and admit them to the Garden, which he has announced for them. - 47:5

Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. - 48:25

Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29

Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - 66:9

The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - 98:51

Fight them so that Allah may punish them at your hands, and put them to shame. (verse cited in Newsweek 2/11/02)

-------

Once again you have stated nothing he has said or done that would lead you to believe he is or ever was a Muslim. Your reason is 'just cause'

Your Quran quotes are why you think a Muslim shouldn't be president?

You sure you want to go down this road with me?

Let me show you why a Christian shouldn't be president.

They entered into a covenant to seek the LORD, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul. All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman. - 2 Chronicles 15: 12-13

If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God - Deuteronomy 13: 6-10

If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods you have not known), then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely, [a] both its people and its livestock. - Deuteronomy 13: 12-15

If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the LORD gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God in violation of his covenant, and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars of the sky, and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death. - Deuteronomy 17: 2-5

As I listened, he said to the others, "Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion. Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary." So they began with the elders who were in front of the temple. Ezekiel 9: 5-7

Whoever is captured will be thrust through;
all who are caught will fall by the sword.
Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes;
their houses will be looted and their wives ravished. Isaiah 13: 15-16

When Israel had finished killing all the men of Ai in the fields and in the desert where they had chased them, and when every one of them had been put to the sword, all the Israelites returned to Ai and killed those who were in it. Twelve thousand men and women fell that day—all the people of Ai. For Joshua did not draw back the hand that held out his javelin until he had destroyed [a] all who lived in Ai. But Israel did carry off for themselves the livestock and plunder of this city, as the LORD had instructed Joshua. Joshua 8:24-27

Moses saw that the people were running wild and that Aaron had let them get out of control and so become a laughingstock to their enemies. So he stood at the entrance to the camp and said, "Whoever is for the LORD, come to me." And all the Levites rallied to him.
Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.' " The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died. Exodus 32: 25-28

The LORD said to Moses, "Take all the leaders of these people, kill them and expose them in broad daylight before the LORD, so that the LORD's fierce anger may turn away from Israel."
So Moses said to Israel's judges, "Each of you must put to death those of your men who have joined in worshiping the Baal of Peor." Numbers 25:4-5

But those enemies of mine who did not want me (Jesus) to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me." Luke 19: 27


OT, don't attempt to try and portray Islam as a religion that is any more violent than Christianity. Both religions are rooted in violence because they originate from the same source. You will also find just as many peace and forgiveness Suras in the Quran.
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Re: the speech

Post by CarolinaHound on Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:37 pm

Now this is interesting Big Slick. Our own bible does talk about killing the non-believers. (I've only read parts of the Christian bible and none of the Quran) That boils down to using common sense when reading them. Some have common sense, some don't. I don't know about the Quran, but I do know the Christian bible was (1) Written by humans with all their flaws and tendencies to exaggerate and add to what God may have shown them. (2) The scriptures were picked through and put together by humans based on what they thought should be placed in the bible. Therefore in my opinion it's an incomplete book to begin with. (3) It's been translated God only knows how many times by humans with their tendencies to add, subtract and exaggerate on what they were translating. Not to mention, most translations of anything are prone to mistakes.

I can only assume the same might be said for the Quran. Therefore it's not really a solid reason to assume Bambam is a Muslim. He was raised for a long while under the Muslim faith. And no matter how much he now believes in Christianity, the Muslim faith is still in his psyche, and no doubt he has sympathy toward that religion. That in it's self is not enough to say he shouldn't be president. Personally I don't think religion should even be a factor. But I can see where Ot thinks it should be.

Fact is we are at war with a group of people who's faith is the reason we are at war with them. The terrorist are Muslim, and Muslims that believe we are infidels and should be slaughtered if we don't begin to worship alla. Not all Muslims feel this way, but the ones we are at war with do. If we were going through WW2 now, and fighting the Nazi's, I doubt a person who had spent much of his childhood raised in the Nazi party, would be elected prez. Even if he denounced most of what they stood for, but recognized their right to exist. It would still be said he or she were sympathetic to the Nazi way of life, and possibly even still believe in Nazism, (not sure if that's a word). For that reason alone I doubt he'd even be allowed to try to run much less become prez.

Anyway, just saying I can see that point of view. Now that I'm done rambling, I'll end with this, Bambam 's religious beliefs, where he was raised, and how, really have nothing to do with my feelings about him. I just think he's a lousy choice for prez, with a lot of bad ideas. He and his cronies in congress and the senate are trying to run things they know nothing about. They need to stay out of the business world and let the strong survive, and the weak fade into the past. They are printing way too much money, growing a deficit that our great grandkids will be paying for and digging a deeper hole for the economy. They are doing exactly what Bin Laden and the Jihadist want. They know they can't destroy us in battle, but destroy our economy and they destroy us. We are handing the terrorist the victory and they don't even need to fight.

O.K. I'm done with my rambling on. Carry on. Live long and prosper..etc..etc.. Very Happy

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Re: the speech

Post by Big Slick on Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:22 pm

CarolinaHound wrote:Now this is interesting Big Slick. Our own bible does talk about killing the non-believers. (I've only read parts of the Christian bible and none of the Quran) That boils down to using common sense when reading them. Some have common sense, some don't. I don't know about the Quran, but I do know the Christian bible was (1) Written by humans with all their flaws and tendencies to exaggerate and add to what God may have shown them. (2) The scriptures were picked through and put together by humans based on what they thought should be placed in the bible. Therefore in my opinion it's an incomplete book to begin with. (3) It's been translated God only knows how many times by humans with their tendencies to add, subtract and exaggerate on what they were translating. Not to mention, most translations of anything are prone to mistakes.


CH, now we're getting a debate going. Way to go HP!!!

What you said is interesting because the way you interpret the bible depends on which side of the fence you stand on. You say it was written by humans. I would agree to this statement. However, it is a widely held Christian belief that these mere men were guided and inspired by the holy spirit and others. Therefore, that would make the writings divinely inspired and error free. But I don't think it can be both ways. Either it was written by mere men of their own accord, which would account for the many errors and contradictions, but that takes away the devine part of it and the book wouldn't be as powerful then. OR it was divinely inspired with no errors and what is in there is exactly what YHWH wanted to go in there. Then it makes you wonder why so many contradictions and multiple different accounts of the same events? This could be it's own thread in and of itself.

CarolinaHound wrote:I can only assume the same might be said for the Quran. Therefore it's not really a solid reason to assume Bambam is a Muslim. He was raised for a long while under the Muslim faith. And no matter how much he now believes in Christianity, the Muslim faith is still in his psyche, and no doubt he has sympathy toward that religion. That in it's self is not enough to say he shouldn't be president. Personally I don't think religion should even be a factor. But I can see where Ot thinks it should be.

Good point, but on the other side of that coin I would say this is the very reason he is what need right now. Someone who, may not follow the faith, but at the very least recognizes their right to exist and is tolerable toward their beliefs. Someone who is versed in both is not really a bad thing. It's better than having a Bible thumping, Muslim hating, bigot in office.

CarolinaHound wrote:Fact is we are at war with a group of people who's faith is the reason we are at war with them. The terrorist are Muslim, and Muslims that believe we are infidels and should be slaughtered if we don't begin to worship alla. Not all Muslims feel this way, but the ones we are at war with do. If we were going through WW2 now, and fighting the Nazi's, I doubt a person who had spent much of his childhood raised in the Nazi party, would be elected prez. Even if he denounced most of what they stood for, but recognized their right to exist. It would still be said he or she were sympathetic to the Nazi way of life, and possibly even still believe in Nazism, (not sure if that's a word). For that reason alone I doubt he'd even be allowed to try to run much less become prez.

Anyway, just saying I can see that point of view. Now that I'm done rambling, I'll end with this, Bambam 's religious beliefs, where he was raised, and how, really have nothing to do with my feelings about him. I just think he's a lousy choice for prez, with a lot of bad ideas. He and his cronies in congress and the senate are trying to run things they know nothing about. They need to stay out of the business world and let the strong survive, and the weak fade into the past. They are printing way too much money, growing a deficit that our great grandkids will be paying for and digging a deeper hole for the economy. They are doing exactly what Bin Laden and the Jihadist want. They know they can't destroy us in battle, but destroy our economy and they destroy us. We are handing the terrorist the victory and they don't even need to fight.

O.K. I'm done with my rambling on. Carry on. Live long and prosper..etc..etc.. Very Happy

We are at war with people who have perverted their faith to fit their radical agenda. Extremists should not be tolerated regardless what religion they justify themselves with. Whether its the Christian bombers in North Ireland or the Muslim suicide bombers in Pakistan. Whether its the crazy Iranian regime or the Zionist Isralies currently in power. None of them should be getting our support because they all stand for the same thing. They all stand for the killing of another people and hide behind the cloak of god to justify it.
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Re: the speech

Post by CarolinaHound on Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:04 pm

What you said is interesting because the way you interpret the bible depends on which side of the fence you stand on. You say it was written by humans. I would agree to this statement. However, it is a widely held Christian belief that these mere men were guided and inspired by the holy spirit and others. Therefore, that would make the writings divinely inspired and error free. But I don't think it can be both ways. Either it was written by mere men of their own accord, which would account for the many errors and contradictions, but that takes away the devine part of it and the book wouldn't be as powerful then. OR it was divinely inspired with no errors and what is in there is exactly what YHWH wanted to go in there. Then it makes you wonder why so many contradictions and multiple different accounts of the same events? This could be it's own thread in and of itself.


But it can go both ways. Even Moses, though guided by God, went against what God wanted. That's why after he led them to the promised land he couldn't stay there with them. Even with devine influance the human factor still rears it's ugly head.


Good point, but on the other side of that coin I would say this is the very reason he is what need right now. Someone who, may not follow the faith, but at the very least recognizes their right to exist and is tolerable toward their beliefs. Someone who is versed in both is not really a bad thing. It's better than having a Bible thumping, Muslim hating, bigot in office.

I really can't argue that as in my opinion someone versed in both would be a good thing. But like I said, it's not his background that bothers me except for his lack of experiance. It's his screwy decisions, promises that everyone should know can't be kept, general air of pussyness (sorry HP, OT, and others that don't like that language), and from what I've seen so far poor judgment. Heck his teleprompters don't really bother me as much as they do some. Public speaking 101 - bring outline of speach and notes. So he uses a prompter, big deal. It'd his goofy decisions and policies. Like bowing to the king. What was he thinking? Man up 101 - don't bow to anybody unless you know it's their custom. Elsewise, you look like a pussy (sorry Very Happy That's my word for the day. Very Happy) when he don't bow in return. jmo Wink


We are at war with people who have perverted their faith to fit their radical agenda. Extremists should not be tolerated regardless what religion they justify themselves with. Whether its the Christian bombers in North Ireland or the Muslim suicide bombers in Pakistan. Whether its the crazy Iranian regime or the Zionist Isralies currently in power. None of them should be getting our support because they all stand for the same thing. They all stand for the killing of another people and hide behind the cloak of god to justify it.

That's what I meant. You said it better than I would of anyway. And I was getting tired of writting, and wanted to get back to weeding my garden. ("weeding my garden" Now I sound like a wussy.)

Bet you thought I was gonna say pussy instead of wussy didn't ya? What a Face
lol! 🐶

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Re: the speech

Post by Big Slick on Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:15 pm

CarolinaHound wrote:
What you said is interesting because the way you interpret the bible depends on which side of the fence you stand on. You say it was written by humans. I would agree to this statement. However, it is a widely held Christian belief that these mere men were guided and inspired by the holy spirit and others. Therefore, that would make the writings divinely inspired and error free. But I don't think it can be both ways. Either it was written by mere men of their own accord, which would account for the many errors and contradictions, but that takes away the devine part of it and the book wouldn't be as powerful then. OR it was divinely inspired with no errors and what is in there is exactly what YHWH wanted to go in there. Then it makes you wonder why so many contradictions and multiple different accounts of the same events? This could be it's own thread in and of itself.


But it can go both ways. Even Moses, though guided by God, went against what God wanted. That's why after he led them to the promised land he couldn't stay there with them. Even with devine influance the human factor still rears it's ugly head.


Good point, but on the other side of that coin I would say this is the very reason he is what need right now. Someone who, may not follow the faith, but at the very least recognizes their right to exist and is tolerable toward their beliefs. Someone who is versed in both is not really a bad thing. It's better than having a Bible thumping, Muslim hating, bigot in office.

I really can't argue that as in my opinion someone versed in both would be a good thing. But like I said, it's not his background that bothers me except for his lack of experiance. It's his screwy decisions, promises that everyone should know can't be kept, general air of pussyness (sorry HP, OT, and others that don't like that language), and from what I've seen so far poor judgment. Heck his teleprompters don't really bother me as much as they do some. Public speaking 101 - bring outline of speach and notes. So he uses a prompter, big deal. It'd his goofy decisions and policies. Like bowing to the king. What was he thinking? Man up 101 - don't bow to anybody unless you know it's their custom. Elsewise, you look like a pussy (sorry Very Happy That's my word for the day. Very Happy) when he don't bow in return. jmo Wink


We are at war with people who have perverted their faith to fit their radical agenda. Extremists should not be tolerated regardless what religion they justify themselves with. Whether its the Christian bombers in North Ireland or the Muslim suicide bombers in Pakistan. Whether its the crazy Iranian regime or the Zionist Isralies currently in power. None of them should be getting our support because they all stand for the same thing. They all stand for the killing of another people and hide behind the cloak of god to justify it.

That's what I meant. You said it better than I would of anyway. And I was getting tired of writting, and wanted to get back to weeding my garden. ("weeding my garden" Now I sound like a wussy.)

Bet you thought I was gonna say pussy instead of wussy didn't ya? What a Face
lol! 🐶


Weeding your garden...I understand what you're saying Laughing


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Re: the speech

Post by CarolinaHound on Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:54 pm

hehehe.... nope I'm talkin real weeds like crabgrass. Don't think planting some aint crossed my mind though. Very Happy

Of course as many cases of crabs have spread as a direct result of the good weed, I guess you could call it crabgrass too. It's all in point of view and one's perspective on things. Laughing

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