Has Obamamania reached its limit?

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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by Old Timer on Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:24 pm

HotParadox wrote:
HotParadox wrote:bumping this up for luciano. bounce

Luciano wrote:I read it, not much more to say than I think you are completely wrong, cant be partisan if I dont belong to a party. The Bush Administration destroyed this country, what is happening now is Bush's fault, you can play politics and speculate on how terrible Obama is gonna be but that's all it is, speculation. So I wont get over it, I will remind people frequently, and hold people to task that want this country to struggle like when their leader was in there.

bush was not totally responsible for everything. take fannie. i can blame my own state's idiot, dem barney frank for his enormous part in that. the war, we can blame that on bush and many others, including dems, who were initially in favor. i will give you this:once we went in, he should've shit or get off the pot. never mind the money it cost us, but the lives lost by letting it go on so long.
i do recall you saying that you're not a democrat but your views are partisan, btw. you're gonna tell me that you've cut the republicans any slack?

HotParadox wrote:bush created what he created and now obama is trumping bush bigtime, as many democrat senior senators are well aware. now is the time for Team Obama to "change" that, as his campaign said ad nauseum, not to compound it and obscenely add to it as they have in 60 short days.

Luciano wrote:^^ That is just blatantly wrong in my opinion, pure speculation and the definition of partisan bullshit, YOU DONT KNOW what Obama is doing now trumps Bush, you havent seen results yet. Thats what Rush Limbaugh and the rest of them told you. Its opposition propaganda. And I dont care what senior Dems are saying, Im not a democrat.

Now, Bush has a well documented proven track record of being a total moron. I will not get over it and neither should anyone else that loves America.

Im gonna give Obama the same chance I gave Bush. Actually I'll give him more time since I voted for him.
wait. what i have seen so far is bo increasing the deficit by a shitload of money, on my dime. printing money out of thin air. bogus money. any idiot knows that if you are in debt, you don't go more in debt. i'm judging that and he owns it. that's what i've seen so far and that's what bothers me so far. our grandchildren will still be paying this off when i'm six feet under. that's not Rush talk. that's math.

Well he said that he was gonna change things didn't he. Well he is, from bad to worse. Sad Mad
Sad Mad Sad

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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by luciano on Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:42 pm

Grim17 wrote:All Bush's fault... Obama doing the right things... People unpatriotic for criticizing Obama... Bush worse president in history...

Naaaa... Nothing partisan there luciano.

Nope, I have no commitment to the Democratic party, here is the definition.


In politics, a partisan is a committed member of a party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partisan_(political)

Im an Obama supporter but do not support the Democratic party anymore than the Republican party. In fact in November I voted for 3 wingnuts from each side. Democrats-Barrack Obama(prez), Jason Altmire(District 4 US representative), Robert McCord(state Treasurer). Republicans: Tom Corbett(state AG), Jim Marshall(state house district 14), Elder Vogel(state senate Dist. 47).

And I voted Yes to this

http://www.smartvoter.org/2008/11/04/pa/state/rfrnd/

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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by JReed on Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:05 pm

Alright, i am going to put in my 2 cents here.

First, I understand that Grim can be a bit strong in his postings...so please don't attribute that to my postings.

Luciano, I don't know you. I don't think we've conversed much in the past. But I want you to know that you are coming across as a complete hypocrit and someone who doesn't even know his own politics. If you support Obamas policies...you are a democrat. I say that because the things he's trying to implement are the democrat talking points. National Healthcare, nationalized business, bigger government. If you support bigger government, you're a democrat at heart. Admit it, embrace it. It's not a bad thing.

But seriously, your posts essentially bash bush, which is very old already...correct or not it's irrelevent. And then you basically run and hide by saying "Im not a democrat". Well I've got news...you just aren't admitting it. It seems to me like you're hedging your bet. If Obamas plans fail you'll say " I was never a democrat" but if they succeed you'll say "Im behind him 100%". Which is it?

So...now that i have gotten that out in the open...I have a question.

Obama's plan is to spend his way out of this recession. I have heard some refer to it as Kensian economics, others call it tax and spend. I personally don't care about the name, just the results. In either case, his goal is to start enough projects and spend enough money to put people to work and therefore collect more tax dollars and create that perpetual cycle.
He says this will allow the country to grow at the rates he predicts...rates that nobody seems to agree with.

Can you articulate what it is about that plan you like? And I do mean something other than "I wanted 180 degrees from Bush and am happy we have it" -- to me that is an idiotic response. Sure bush did a bad job, but that does not mean 180 degrees is the correct answer. I am hoping you have some thought behind it. I don't need you to post a bunch of links or "proof"...etc. I don't do that either...I do want opinion. Much of political beliefs is life experience. That's what I am looking for from you...what is your opinion on what he's doing.

To me spending is the problem. We as americans spend too much and save too little. I think it starts with the federal government and for the last couple decades they've been the problem. And I see Obama making the problem a whole lot worse.
I actually voted the for the independant party for that very reason. I didn't like McCain and I knew Obama would be a spender. We need someone who will stop the insanity.
Unfortunately the republican party doesn't know which way is up and have completely forgotten what the party is all about. Instead they all spend spend spend. Now you can't tell the republicans from the democrats when it comes to fiscal policy.
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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by luciano on Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:49 pm

First of all let me say, me having a little fun trolling(yes I know it's against the rules, I wrote them) Frankg got a bit out of hand, I knew Frank would ignore me after awhile I didnt anticipate having to deal with all this. Very Happy

Secondly, I hate how you guys say I should just "get over" Bush 2 months and 10 days after he left. How long did it take the old timers to get over Pearl Harbor, or 9/11, or Katrina? The presidency of Geroge W Bush ranks up there will all 3 of those national calamities, in fact he played a part in 2 of them. So Im not gonna get over it, sorry, aint happening. I'll never forget and I'll probably never shut up about it. Half of you smashing Obama every chance you get, have no business yapping in my opinion, namely Frank and Grim, but that's my opinion. The next islamic terrorist act that happens on US soil or abroad can be blamed on you know who for the next 25 year imo. While Bush was president, our enemies multiplied by 10.

Ok now to JReed's delightful, well written post:

You dont know me JReed, I dont think Im a democrat, but you might be right if you said Im leaning that way, especially at the federal level. There are some core beliefs of mine that leave me an independent, some contradict with the Dem platform(ex. Im anti abortion), some contradict with the GOP's(ex. Im for gun control). Im not hedging my bet, if Obama does things to make me turn on him like I did Bush, I'll say it. Saying "I was never a Democrat" wont get me off the hook, I actually voted for him. Im gonna sink with the ship with him, but he has considerably more to lose than me politically, hehe.


Now it isnt all peaches and cream with me and Obama, first I'll list the things I dont like:

TARP, Bush TARP and Obama TARP, but TARP is Bush so maybe I shouldnt even post it but I will because Obama got to dole out half of it.

Leaving 50,000 troops in Iraq "indefinitely"(its probably more responsible this way but really I could care less about them motherfuckers, let them fight a civil war, and I would of been much happier with every single troop coming home and a cancellation of Bush's $1billion dollar embassy).

Im not sure how this nationalized healthcare he is talking about is gonna go, but Im probably gonna be against that. Im not against everyone being insured, I am against not having a choice with my healthcare and who treats me and WHEN I get treated. I dont mind( I would definitely like to pay less) paying the amount of money I do for the healthcare my family enjoys, Im not budging on that, if he wants to give me what I got now for nothing, ok sweet, but anything short I will probably be against.

There are more JReed, but really I cant think of em now, and this is the second time I wrote this post, I screwed up and clicked away from the screen, wish we had "save draft"

Now I am supporting Obama's Stimulus(America's Recovery and Reinvestment) bill mostly, I like where he is putting the money and how its a slower stimulus than Bush's and I believe he is truly trying to spend money at home, rebuild the infastructure and get us ready for the future, my local paper the big news is who is getting turned down for ARRP money because it seems like there are an awful lot of people getting approved. These projects are definitely going to stimulate the economy, who gets these jobs? People in your community, the private sector. The extension of unemployment benefits was bi-partisan and I mean in these times you gotta do it, I know I wouldnt want to look for a job right now. Im not in the IBEW union, but have many laid off friends(I work in a pretty large industrial park) who are and every morning there are 50-70 guys there at the hall in the morning and maybe 3-5 go out and work that day. The extra $20 or whatever it is in my check, well it is what it is, lol, $20. 10 Yuenglings every 2 weeks. The foreclosure money, Im not wild about... But overall I think its a good start and what I voted for him for, a complete change from the way we were doing things.

The envoys for the hotspots he added, Iraq, Israel, Aghanistan/Pakistan, Sudan, etc. You know actually attempting to use diplomacy first.

Speaking to Iran was pretty ballsy, Id much rather see someone bomb them back to 1940, but hey at least he is doing something, if down the road he does plan to get tough with them and bomb facilities, he may have more international support for something like that if need be since he made the move and reached out to them first.

Decreasing troop levels in Iraq to increase them in Afghanistan, I wanna see Al-Qaeda really on the run and some of them killed or captured, I want someone to finally actually look for the real bad guys, not the made up ones. I wanna actually see it, not Fox News telling me it's so everyday by some talking head.

Making that dude(Wagoner) quit at GM was pretty cool today, made me feel good anyway, they want the money right, well careful what you wish for.

He's got little kids, I got little kids, maybe he'll look out for our little kids' future.

Taxing the living shit out of cigarettes....

But, really I just think it is too early to bitch about anything, he hasnt been in office long enough to make a dent to the good or bad, and people buying into Rush's oxycontin induced rants and spreading the message on the internet and media, are people hoping Barrack Obama and the country as a whole fail because they want to benefit from it politically and it's not the time for that. Shows their true colors in my opinion, both sides have them, now I know which posters on the boards have the GOP at heart first and not America, I already knew which Dems felt that way. But it's entertaining to watch and its why I chat on political forums.

I dont think the way you do I guess, Im not gonna admit or embrace anything Im not.

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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by Grim17 on Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:14 pm

Hey luciano, I address every little shot at me you take, because I'm a man. I stand up for what I believe in and welcome debate about the things I support. Too bad you won't do the same.

Again, I kindly invite you to kiss my red state ass you hypocrite. I posted an entire thread dedicated to your fucking hero Barack Obama, which addresses his policies from a factual perspective, not a partisan one. You obviously are too chicken shit to have a debate on the policies of your hero, and instead feel that attacking me and accusing me of putting politics ahead of my country is a better option. To put it bluntly, that's a tactic that pussy liberals have used for decades.

Be a man luciano.
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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by Susan aka CV on Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:21 pm

luciano wrote:First of all let me say, me having a little fun trolling(yes I know it's against the rules, I wrote them) Frankg got a bit out of hand, I knew Frank would ignore me after awhile I didnt anticipate having to deal with all this. Very Happy
just to reiterate... you're the "exec" around here; so you can do whatever you want (break the rules, whatever) - while you, at the same time, bitch and moan about what OTHER execs have done.

and you called ME a hypocrit? Rolling Eyes

got it.

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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by Frankg on Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:27 am

Luciano wrote
Frankg got a bit out of hand, I knew Frank would ignore me after awhile I didnt anticipate having to deal with all this

How did I get out of hand ? I don't think I posted anything derogatory against anyone here , .....of course I can get out of hand whenever I want to Twisted Evil
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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by JReed on Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:13 pm

luciano wrote:First of all let me say, me having a little fun trolling(yes I know it's against the rules, I wrote them) Frankg got a bit out of hand, I knew Frank would ignore me after awhile I didnt anticipate having to deal with all this. Very Happy
Oh well. If you want debate you have to put up with some crap. What can you do.

luciano wrote:
Secondly, I hate how you guys say I should just "get over" Bush 2 months and 10 days after he left. How long did it take the old timers to get over Pearl Harbor, or 9/11, or Katrina? The presidency of Geroge W Bush ranks up there will all 3 of those national calamities, in fact he played a part in 2 of them. So Im not gonna get over it, sorry, aint happening. I'll never forget and I'll probably never shut up about it. Half of you smashing Obama every chance you get, have no business yapping in my opinion, namely Frank and Grim, but that's my opinion. The next islamic terrorist act that happens on US soil or abroad can be blamed on you know who for the next 25 year imo. While Bush was president, our enemies multiplied by 10.

I don't think it's a matter of "getting over" Bush, although I may have said that. To me it's the blind ignorance that is the "blame Bush" segment of the population. Not many people think Bush did a good job. I'm not even sure he thinks he did a good job. He wasn't up to the task, plain and simple.

However Obama is now in charge and is making his own bed. He's the one that has gone back on many campaign promises, already.
He's the one spending ridiculous amounts. I'll get to that later.

My point is simple. Every president inherits problems from the previous. Blaming that past president is not useful, effective, or productive. In fact all it ever becomes is an excuse. Obama has the ability to choose how he will lead and how he will spend. Every time he blames the previous administration for his problems (which he has done) he is simply refusing to accept responsibility for what he's doing.

What he should be saying (as well as the rest of the country) is something like this.
"Listen folks, here's the situation...we're in debt, we're at war, and the economy isn't so great. While we need to understand what happened so we don't repeat the same mistakes, we need to get out of this mess as fast as we can. Here are my proposed solutions......"

Instead he says..."Bush sucked, so I have to fix this shit up...so I am going to spend." -- Great. Very productive.

luciano wrote:
Ok now to JReed's delightful, well written post:
You dont know me JReed, I dont think Im a democrat, but you might be right if you said Im leaning that way, especially at the federal level. There are some core beliefs of mine that leave me an independent, some contradict with the Dem platform(ex. Im anti abortion), some contradict with the GOP's(ex. Im for gun control). Im not hedging my bet, if Obama does things to make me turn on him like I did Bush, I'll say it. Saying "I was never a Democrat" wont get me off the hook, I actually voted for him. Im gonna sink with the ship with him, but he has considerably more to lose than me politically, hehe.

I realize people dislike the labels. But at the end of the day we all have core philosophies we believe in. It would appear that you think the government should have a bigger role in our lives. That is the basic democrat belief. While you may challenge some of the details and where the lines are drawn...it's still democrat.

I think people as a whole fear making decisions. It's why I chose to go to the republican forum. My core philosophies are old-school republican. Smaller government, less spending, lower taxes. I certainly have some more liberal ideas...but my core philosophies come back to the right.

Just because you have core beliefs doesn't mean you have to like their candidate.

luciano wrote:
Now it isnt all peaches and cream with me and Obama, first I'll list the things I dont like:

TARP, Bush TARP and Obama TARP, but TARP is Bush so maybe I shouldnt even post it but I will because Obama got to dole out half of it.

Leaving 50,000 troops in Iraq "indefinitely"(its probably more responsible this way but really I could care less about them motherfuckers, let them fight a civil war, and I would of been much happier with every single troop coming home and a cancellation of Bush's $1billion dollar embassy).
Fair enought. Obama has lied about many things...Iraq being one. So much for yanking the troops out. Instead he "surges" into Afghanastan. To me it "same shit, different pile".

luciano wrote:
Im not sure how this nationalized healthcare he is talking about is gonna go, but Im probably gonna be against that. Im not against everyone being insured, I am against not having a choice with my healthcare and who treats me and WHEN I get treated. I dont mind( I would definitely like to pay less) paying the amount of money I do for the healthcare my family enjoys, Im not budging on that, if he wants to give me what I got now for nothing, ok sweet, but anything short I will probably be against.
I dont want to pay for the smokers, drug addicts, alcoholics, and stupid people of the world.
And I don't think our government is able to run this in an effective efficient manner. Personally I think they are a bunch of bumbling idiots running this great country into the ground.

luciano wrote:
There are more JReed, but really I cant think of em now, and this is the second time I wrote this post, I screwed up and clicked away from the screen, wish we had "save draft"

Now I am supporting Obama's Stimulus(America's Recovery and Reinvestment) bill mostly, I like where he is putting the money and how its a slower stimulus than Bush's and I believe he is truly trying to spend money at home, rebuild the infastructure and get us ready for the future, my local paper the big news is who is getting turned down for ARRP money because it seems like there are an awful lot of people getting approved. These projects are definitely going to stimulate the economy, who gets these jobs? People in your community, the private sector. The extension of unemployment benefits was bi-partisan and I mean in these times you gotta do it, I know I wouldnt want to look for a job right now. Im not in the IBEW union, but have many laid off friends(I work in a pretty large industrial park) who are and every morning there are 50-70 guys there at the hall in the morning and maybe 3-5 go out and work that day. The extra $20 or whatever it is in my check, well it is what it is, lol, $20. 10 Yuenglings every 2 weeks. The foreclosure money, Im not wild about... But overall I think its a good start and what I voted for him for, a complete change from the way we were doing things.
So I want to understand this.
You do think that the way out of this recession/depression is through more government spending, right? That's where these dollars are coming from.

See I am of the belief that spending is our problem. As a soceity we spend too much. We never prepare for the future. And Uncle Sammy is one of the worst offenders of this. It's why our deficit is gigantic (only getting bigger). I think this was Bush's biggest blunder.

I also believe that since spending is the problem, it can not be the answer. I can't put it any simpler.

I think this is where I really disagree with you. In a previous post somewhere you said Bush was so bad going 180 degrees from that can't be bad. But that isn't what Obama is doing at all.
Bush was a big spender...as we all know. Huge deficits...big problems.
Obama is no different. The only difference is the agenda, the spending is the same...worse actually. So while you're happy with a 180 degree change...in reality Obama is only a change of maybe 5 degrees. He's just a continuation of the original problem.


luciano wrote:
The envoys for the hotspots he added, Iraq, Israel, Aghanistan/Pakistan, Sudan, etc. You know actually attempting to use diplomacy first.

Speaking to Iran was pretty ballsy, Id much rather see someone bomb them back to 1940, but hey at least he is doing something, if down the road he does plan to get tough with them and bomb facilities, he may have more international support for something like that if need be since he made the move and reached out to them first.

Decreasing troop levels in Iraq to increase them in Afghanistan, I wanna see Al-Qaeda really on the run and some of them killed or captured, I want someone to finally actually look for the real bad guys, not the made up ones. I wanna actually see it, not Fox News telling me it's so everyday by some talking head.
Frankly I never thought talking could hurt anything. However if the US actually did away with state sponsored assassination, they need to bring it back.

luciano wrote:
Making that dude(Wagoner) quit at GM was pretty cool today, made me feel good anyway, they want the money right, well careful what you wish for.
I think public and shareholder pressure did that, not Obama. While it put a smile on my face, I don't know that it will make a difference to that company. Too little, too late.

luciano wrote:
He's got little kids, I got little kids, maybe he'll look out for our little kids' future.
Wouldn't count on it. He doesn't have to pay a dime for them. Politicians live in a different world than normal folk.

luciano wrote:
Taxing the living shit out of cigarettes....
Fine by me. Alcohol too.
While it may drive sales down...it should make health issues related to them go down as well. Might help the healthcare plan a bit.

luciano wrote:
But, really I just think it is too early to bitch about anything, he hasnt been in office long enough to make a dent to the good or bad, and people buying into Rush's oxycontin induced rants and spreading the message on the internet and media, are people hoping Barrack Obama and the country as a whole fail because they want to benefit from it politically and it's not the time for that. Shows their true colors in my opinion, both sides have them, now I know which posters on the boards have the GOP at heart first and not America, I already knew which Dems felt that way. But it's entertaining to watch and its why I chat on political forums.

I dont think the way you do I guess, Im not gonna admit or embrace anything Im not.
I don't watch Rush, never will. He's a hypocrit. Plain and simple. Not that I am any better since I know for a fact that we're all hypocrits in some way...but we don't have a national audience.

But I don't think it's too early to voice complaints. I think what Obama and the democrats will "finish the job". By that I mean this country and its economy will collapse within the next 20 years as a result of these policies. We may get propped up for a little while, but it won't last.

If you are going to whine about and blame bush after he's gone, I can certainly voice my distress about Obama when he's trying to enact socialist policies in a capitalist country.
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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by Old Timer on Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:36 pm

JReed wrote:
luciano wrote:First of all let me say, me having a little fun trolling(yes I know it's against the rules, I wrote them) Frankg got a bit out of hand, I knew Frank would ignore me after awhile I didnt anticipate having to deal with all this. Very Happy
Oh well. If you want debate you have to put up with some crap. What can you do.

luciano wrote:
Secondly, I hate how you guys say I should just "get over" Bush 2 months and 10 days after he left. How long did it take the old timers to get over Pearl Harbor, or 9/11, or Katrina? The presidency of Geroge W Bush ranks up there will all 3 of those national calamities, in fact he played a part in 2 of them. So Im not gonna get over it, sorry, aint happening. I'll never forget and I'll probably never shut up about it. Half of you smashing Obama every chance you get, have no business yapping in my opinion, namely Frank and Grim, but that's my opinion. The next islamic terrorist act that happens on US soil or abroad can be blamed on you know who for the next 25 year imo. While Bush was president, our enemies multiplied by 10.

I don't think it's a matter of "getting over" Bush, although I may have said that. To me it's the blind ignorance that is the "blame Bush" segment of the population. Not many people think Bush did a good job. I'm not even sure he thinks he did a good job. He wasn't up to the task, plain and simple.

However Obama is now in charge and is making his own bed. He's the one that has gone back on many campaign promises, already.
He's the one spending ridiculous amounts. I'll get to that later.

My point is simple. Every president inherits problems from the previous. Blaming that past president is not useful, effective, or productive. In fact all it ever becomes is an excuse. Obama has the ability to choose how he will lead and how he will spend. Every time he blames the previous administration for his problems (which he has done) he is simply refusing to accept responsibility for what he's doing.

What he should be saying (as well as the rest of the country) is something like this.
"Listen folks, here's the situation...we're in debt, we're at war, and the economy isn't so great. While we need to understand what happened so we don't repeat the same mistakes, we need to get out of this mess as fast as we can. Here are my proposed solutions......"

Instead he says..."Bush sucked, so I have to fix this shit up...so I am going to spend." -- Great. Very productive.

luciano wrote:
Ok now to JReed's delightful, well written post:
You dont know me JReed, I dont think Im a democrat, but you might be right if you said Im leaning that way, especially at the federal level. There are some core beliefs of mine that leave me an independent, some contradict with the Dem platform(ex. Im anti abortion), some contradict with the GOP's(ex. Im for gun control). Im not hedging my bet, if Obama does things to make me turn on him like I did Bush, I'll say it. Saying "I was never a Democrat" wont get me off the hook, I actually voted for him. Im gonna sink with the ship with him, but he has considerably more to lose than me politically, hehe.

I realize people dislike the labels. But at the end of the day we all have core philosophies we believe in. It would appear that you think the government should have a bigger role in our lives. That is the basic democrat belief. While you may challenge some of the details and where the lines are drawn...it's still democrat.

I think people as a whole fear making decisions. It's why I chose to go to the republican forum. My core philosophies are old-school republican. Smaller government, less spending, lower taxes. I certainly have some more liberal ideas...but my core philosophies come back to the right.

Just because you have core beliefs doesn't mean you have to like their candidate.

luciano wrote:
Now it isnt all peaches and cream with me and Obama, first I'll list the things I dont like:

TARP, Bush TARP and Obama TARP, but TARP is Bush so maybe I shouldnt even post it but I will because Obama got to dole out half of it.

Leaving 50,000 troops in Iraq "indefinitely"(its probably more responsible this way but really I could care less about them motherfuckers, let them fight a civil war, and I would of been much happier with every single troop coming home and a cancellation of Bush's $1billion dollar embassy).
Fair enought. Obama has lied about many things...Iraq being one. So much for yanking the troops out. Instead he "surges" into Afghanastan. To me it "same shit, different pile".

luciano wrote:
Im not sure how this nationalized healthcare he is talking about is gonna go, but Im probably gonna be against that. Im not against everyone being insured, I am against not having a choice with my healthcare and who treats me and WHEN I get treated. I dont mind( I would definitely like to pay less) paying the amount of money I do for the healthcare my family enjoys, Im not budging on that, if he wants to give me what I got now for nothing, ok sweet, but anything short I will probably be against.
I dont want to pay for the smokers, drug addicts, alcoholics, and stupid people of the world.
And I don't think our government is able to run this in an effective efficient manner. Personally I think they are a bunch of bumbling idiots running this great country into the ground.

luciano wrote:
There are more JReed, but really I cant think of em now, and this is the second time I wrote this post, I screwed up and clicked away from the screen, wish we had "save draft"

Now I am supporting Obama's Stimulus(America's Recovery and Reinvestment) bill mostly, I like where he is putting the money and how its a slower stimulus than Bush's and I believe he is truly trying to spend money at home, rebuild the infastructure and get us ready for the future, my local paper the big news is who is getting turned down for ARRP money because it seems like there are an awful lot of people getting approved. These projects are definitely going to stimulate the economy, who gets these jobs? People in your community, the private sector. The extension of unemployment benefits was bi-partisan and I mean in these times you gotta do it, I know I wouldnt want to look for a job right now. Im not in the IBEW union, but have many laid off friends(I work in a pretty large industrial park) who are and every morning there are 50-70 guys there at the hall in the morning and maybe 3-5 go out and work that day. The extra $20 or whatever it is in my check, well it is what it is, lol, $20. 10 Yuenglings every 2 weeks. The foreclosure money, Im not wild about... But overall I think its a good start and what I voted for him for, a complete change from the way we were doing things.
So I want to understand this.
You do think that the way out of this recession/depression is through more government spending, right? That's where these dollars are coming from.

See I am of the belief that spending is our problem. As a soceity we spend too much. We never prepare for the future. And Uncle Sammy is one of the worst offenders of this. It's why our deficit is gigantic (only getting bigger). I think this was Bush's biggest blunder.

I also believe that since spending is the problem, it can not be the answer. I can't put it any simpler.

I think this is where I really disagree with you. In a previous post somewhere you said Bush was so bad going 180 degrees from that can't be bad. But that isn't what Obama is doing at all.
Bush was a big spender...as we all know. Huge deficits...big problems.
Obama is no different. The only difference is the agenda, the spending is the same...worse actually. So while you're happy with a 180 degree change...in reality Obama is only a change of maybe 5 degrees. He's just a continuation of the original problem.


luciano wrote:
The envoys for the hotspots he added, Iraq, Israel, Aghanistan/Pakistan, Sudan, etc. You know actually attempting to use diplomacy first.

Speaking to Iran was pretty ballsy, Id much rather see someone bomb them back to 1940, but hey at least he is doing something, if down the road he does plan to get tough with them and bomb facilities, he may have more international support for something like that if need be since he made the move and reached out to them first.

Decreasing troop levels in Iraq to increase them in Afghanistan, I wanna see Al-Qaeda really on the run and some of them killed or captured, I want someone to finally actually look for the real bad guys, not the made up ones. I wanna actually see it, not Fox News telling me it's so everyday by some talking head.
Frankly I never thought talking could hurt anything. However if the US actually did away with state sponsored assassination, they need to bring it back.

luciano wrote:
Making that dude(Wagoner) quit at GM was pretty cool today, made me feel good anyway, they want the money right, well careful what you wish for.
I think public and shareholder pressure did that, not Obama. While it put a smile on my face, I don't know that it will make a difference to that company. Too little, too late.

luciano wrote:
He's got little kids, I got little kids, maybe he'll look out for our little kids' future.
Wouldn't count on it. He doesn't have to pay a dime for them. Politicians live in a different world than normal folk.

luciano wrote:
Taxing the living shit out of cigarettes....
Fine by me. Alcohol too.
While it may drive sales down...it should make health issues related to them go down as well. Might help the healthcare plan a bit.

luciano wrote:
But, really I just think it is too early to bitch about anything, he hasnt been in office long enough to make a dent to the good or bad, and people buying into Rush's oxycontin induced rants and spreading the message on the internet and media, are people hoping Barrack Obama and the country as a whole fail because they want to benefit from it politically and it's not the time for that. Shows their true colors in my opinion, both sides have them, now I know which posters on the boards have the GOP at heart first and not America, I already knew which Dems felt that way. But it's entertaining to watch and its why I chat on political forums.

I dont think the way you do I guess, Im not gonna admit or embrace anything Im not.
I don't watch Rush, never will. He's a hypocrit. Plain and simple. Not that I am any better since I know for a fact that we're all hypocrits in some way...but we don't have a national audience.

But I don't think it's too early to voice complaints. I think what Obama and the democrats will "finish the job". By that I mean this country and its economy will collapse within the next 20 years as a result of these policies. We may get propped up for a little while, but it won't last.

If you are going to whine about and blame bush after he's gone, I can certainly voice my distress about Obama when he's trying to enact socialist policies in a capitalist country.

We all have the right to our own opinion and we should respect the right of others to have their own opinion also. Respect is a two way street. In order to get it, you must also give it. Just my two cents worth.

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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by CarolinaHound on Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:44 pm

Just remember, when they get all us smokers to quit, they'll have to find something else to get the tax revenue from. Perhaps they'll tax the hell out of coffee and donuts next they kill too. Oh and all the fast foods need to have a fat tax stamped on them, they clog up as many arteries as cigarettes do. See how it feels when that egg muffin and coffee costs you 3 dollars more because of some bs tax.

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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by DM007 on Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:45 pm

CarolinaHound wrote:Just remember, when they get all us smokers to quit, they'll have to find something else to get the tax revenue from. Perhaps they'll tax the hell out of coffee and donuts next they kill too. Oh and all the fast foods need to have a fat tax stamped on them, they clog up as many arteries as cigarettes do. See how it feels when that egg muffin and coffee costs you 3 dollars more because of some bs tax.

The smokers......I've been one for over 30 years. What they are doing is getting the last dollar before it's no longer popular. I know many folks quitting, or seriously considering it due to the cost. I may be one of them, if I can get over my stubbornness. I think I'm smoking now out of spite, more than anything else. But, my spite is costing me, and playing their game, by their rules. I wouldn't take issue with that, if the taxes were actually fairly (legally) imposed and distributed.

Tax Police food? No way. Besides....it's tax deductible.

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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by JReed on Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:46 pm

Old Timer wrote:
We all have the right to our own opinion and we should respect the right of others to have their own opinion also. Respect is a two way street. In order to get it, you must also give it. Just my two cents worth.

Did I say something that disrespected his opinion?
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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by Admin on Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:38 pm

Frankg wrote:
Luciano wrote
Frankg got a bit out of hand, I knew Frank would ignore me after awhile I didnt anticipate having to deal with all this

How did I get out of hand ? I don't think I posted anything derogatory against anyone here , .....of course I can get out of hand whenever I want to Twisted Evil

You didnt get out of hand Frank, read the whole sentence bud.


Last edited by Admin on Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by Admin on Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:52 pm

JReed wrote:
Old Timer wrote:
We all have the right to our own opinion and we should respect the right of others to have their own opinion also. Respect is a two way street. In order to get it, you must also give it. Just my two cents worth.

Did I say something that disrespected his opinion?

No
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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by Admin on Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:06 pm

Susan aka CV wrote:
luciano wrote:First of all let me say, me having a little fun trolling(yes I know it's against the rules, I wrote them) Frankg got a bit out of hand, I knew Frank would ignore me after awhile I didnt anticipate having to deal with all this. Very Happy
just to reiterate... you're the "exec" around here; so you can do whatever you want (break the rules, whatever) - while you, at the same time, bitch and moan about what OTHER execs have done.

and you called ME a hypocrit? Rolling Eyes

got it.

CV

You need to read these, I didnt break any of my rules, the only thing I did wrong was use the word "troll" in my post and you ran with it, I kept my insults related to the debate at hand.

http://talkusdown.forumotion.com/political-chat-f1/forum-rules-t113.htm

I will ask you again to please read the rules and if you are having problems understanding them please pm me. Dont start a thread like the one I moved to the basket again please.

You wanna attack my political beliefs thats fine, you can do it in public, however you cannot question the way I, HP, or Paul run this site(you can do it through pm) and frankly I dont know why that thread was left up all day.
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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by Old Timer on Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:09 pm

Admin wrote:
JReed wrote:
Old Timer wrote:
We all have the right to our own opinion and we should respect the right of others to have their own opinion also. Respect is a two way street. In order to get it, you must also give it. Just my two cents worth.

Did I say something that disrespected his opinion?

No

I accuse no one of not showing respect. I was merely putting in my two cents worth. I meant no accusation toward no one and accuse no one of anything here. But there are times when all of us could just take a second to think before we post, myself especially. Even though we may not agree with what someone has posted, we must agree that they do have the right to post it. Isn't that what we are all here for. Of all of us here I am probably the one with the lest amount of education and political savvy and I really do enjoy reading the posts here, I have learned a lot. So please forgive me if I also spout off at times.

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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by Admin on Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:12 pm

Admin wrote:
Susan aka CV wrote:
luciano wrote:First of all let me say, me having a little fun trolling(yes I know it's against the rules, I wrote them) Frankg got a bit out of hand, I knew Frank would ignore me after awhile I didnt anticipate having to deal with all this. Very Happy
just to reiterate... you're the "exec" around here; so you can do whatever you want (break the rules, whatever) - while you, at the same time, bitch and moan about what OTHER execs have done.

and you called ME a hypocrit? Rolling Eyes

got it.

CV

You need to read these, I didnt break any of my rules, the only thing I did wrong was use the word "troll" in my post and you ran with it, I kept my insults related to the debate at hand.

http://talkusdown.forumotion.com/political-chat-f1/forum-rules-t113.htm

I will ask you again to please read the rules and if you are having problems understanding them please pm me. Dont start a thread like the one I moved to the basket again please.

You wanna attack my political beliefs thats fine, you can do it in public, however you cannot question the way I, HP, or Paul run this site(you can do it through pm) and frankly I dont know why that thread was left up all day.

Now I do, family business, sorry for insinuating anything HP.
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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by Admin on Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:13 pm

Old Timer wrote:
Admin wrote:
JReed wrote:
Old Timer wrote:
We all have the right to our own opinion and we should respect the right of others to have their own opinion also. Respect is a two way street. In order to get it, you must also give it. Just my two cents worth.

Did I say something that disrespected his opinion?

No

I accuse no one of not showing respect. I was merely putting in my two cents worth. I meant no accusation toward no one and accuse no one of anything here. But there are times when all of us could just take a second to think before we post, myself especially. Even though we may not agree with what someone has posted, we must agree that they do have the right to post it. Isn't that what we are all here for. Of all of us here I am probably the one with the lest amount of education and political savvy and I really do enjoy reading the posts here, I have learned a lot. So please forgive me if I also spout off at times.

Dont worry about it OT, i just wanted JReed to know he didnt disrepect me in any way.
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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by luciano on Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:22 pm

Im sorry for making those posts above under my admin account, only 1 of them should be with that account.

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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by CarolinaHound on Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:26 pm

I'm going to by-pass the compliment thread and just say that it's great to see everyone take on a heated topic and have a good debate without getting into the nastyness and personal attacks that can often come up. I Really do admire you guys and gals for that. Very Happy

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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by Grim17 on Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:11 am

It's a shame the moderator of this forum is too chicken shit to address what I posted to him.

He is more than willing to take pot shots at me, but is too big a puss to engage in a debate about the man he worships.

Says a lot about the integrity of our founder, doesn't it?
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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by luciano on Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:41 pm

Quit being so f cryptic and ask me what you want me to tell you, Im not doing a pop quizzes, write me a post like JReed did, try not to ask me the same thing he did, I work all day Grim, have 3 kids and dont have time to go through 30 posts back and forth with you, Im sorry.

You want a debate, it might take a week but ok, fire away.

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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by Grim17 on Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:13 pm

This will be like the 4th or 5th time I've posted this... Lets see if you will address it this time.

Grim17 wrote:Are the following statements "true" or "false":

1. Obama is responsible for a budget deficit that's approximately 4 times greater than any budget deficit in US history.

2. Obama has said that his stimulus package, tarp and budget are designed to (among other things) bail out the financial sector, stimulate the economy, create and save American jobs, along with providing economic relief to middle and lower income families.

3. Obama and House democrats this week, insisted that despite record government spending and huge national deficits, the presidents budget will include and/or protect his 5 priorities:
a) Health Care - a national health care program
b) Energy - a Cap & Trade policy and alternative energy programs.
c) Education - More public school programs
d) Tax Relief - Aimed at the middle class and below
e) Deficit - Cutting the budget deficit in half in 4 years.

4. Assuming the above is true, to pay for all this deficit spending, the government can:
a) Borrow the money from foreign sources by getting countries like China to purchase interest bearing treasury bonds.
b) Have the Federal Reserve print more money.
c) Substantially raise taxes across the board.
d) Any or all of the above.

5. Introducing more money into the system from the Federal Reserve, de-values the dollar, which in turn results in inflation (higher prices for goods), and has the potential to cause hyper-inflation and collapse the US economy.

6. Obama has stated he will raise corporate taxes on both big and small businesses, and raise taxes on upper income families.

Actually, as far as I can see, all of the above are true.

I asked these questions for luciano, so he would acknowledge a few things before I laid out some facts that would blow his faith in the Messiah out the window. Either that, or would prove he is actually the one who is partisan.

Now lets examine a few facts pertaining to each question:

1. It is Obama, not Bush who is authorizing all this government spending. The downturn in the economy, which is mainly due to the banks having so many loans that people aren't paying, is the main cause of our economic problems. That is neither Bush's fault, nor Obama's. How to address this problem is up to the president, and we all know what Obama's solution is... To spend money we don't have.

2. Those are goals stated by Obama on many occasions, and whether any one person has seen any effects from these policies, is irrelevant.

3. This is from an article from the Associated Press last Wednesday, after Obama had visited the capitol:

"This budget will protect President Obama's priorities — education, energy, health care, middle class tax relief and cut the deficit in half," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said after the chief executive met privately in the Capitol with rank-and-file Democrats.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090325/ap_on_go_co/congress_budget

The Congressional Budget Office stated in a report a few weeks back, that Obama's budget figures are way off. They underestimate the costs of his social programs, and base their figures on very unrealistic economic growth figures.

Now lets look at those 5:

a) From the thread "Obama's fuzzy math:

"...his budget allocates a $634 billion "placeholder" for that purpose. The consensus opinion, though, is that the lowest possible cost of universal health care is $1.2 trillion, with many estimating closer to $1.5 trillion. So team Obama is off by roughly $600 billion over ten years to cover all of America's uninsured."

b) This is also from the "fuzzy math" thread:

"Jason Furman, the deputy director of the president's National Economic Council, says the cost is likely to be "two to three times higher" than the $646 billion estimate in the president's budget."

And then there is the fact, that the average American family will pay $60 to $120 more per month for electricity when Obama enacts his "Cap & Trade" program.

c) Watch the following report from the ABC program "Bailouts & Bull" about some of the education programs Obama is proposing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K93hZbWB_I

d) His tax relief has already been approved. I think it will add an extra $13 bucks a week for the average family. Doesn't sound like it will make much difference to me, but who knows. Obama doesn't talk about the fact that he will also raise taxes on businesses and upper income families, as part of that tax package.

e) The CBO report, stated that Obama can't possibly cut the deficit down to the levels he has promised. By CBO’s calculation, Obama’s budget would generate deficits averaging almost $1 trillion a year of red ink over 2010-2019. Worst of all, CBO says the deficit under Obama’s policies would never go below 4 percent of the size of the economy, figures that economists agree are unsustainable. By the end of the decade, the deficit would exceed 5 percent of gross domestic product, a dangerously high level. In fact, White House budget chief Peter Orszag said concerning the CBO report that:

“Deficits in the, let’s say, 5 percent of GDP range would lead to rising debt-to-GDP ratios that would ultimately not be sustainable,”

So there you have it... Obama's CBO, his own budget chief, and the deputy director of the president's National Economic Council have all come forward and stated that Obama's numbers are not good.

Still think that I'm "attacking" the president based on partisanship luciano?

Moving on...

4. Lets look at the three ways that Obama and the government can attack this massive deficit.

a) The selling of US Treasury bonds has been going on for a very long time, but all the indicators say that it's coming to an end very soon. Chinese diplomats and bank heads, have been displaying doubts publicly about the spending that Obama is doing, and have indicated that their purchases of our bonds may be coming to an end very soon. They are now proposing that the dollar be replaced as the worlds primary currency, and have proposed replacing it with something else. If all of this comes to pass, it would be devastating to the US.

b) The Fed has already authorized the printing of $1.2 trillion extra dollars, which is designed to keep the US from sinking into a DEPRESSION.

c) If Obama chooses to raise taxes, I don't think I need to explain how this will negatively effect the country... Do I?

5. This is considered to be a last ditch effort to save the American economy, and if this fails, there is nothing more that can be done, and our economy will collapse. This move by the Fed, has been tried many time in other countries in the world, and has never been sucsessful... NEVER. In theory, we can actually sink into a depression, and experience hyper-inflation due to this move. What that means is, it could cost hundreds, maybe even thousands of dollars to purchase a loaf of bread.

6. Any economist will tell you, that you should never raise taxes during a recession. Everyone knows, that when you raise taxes on Business, they pass that tax on to the consumer in the way of higher prices. Either that, or they end up laying off workers. Either one of those has a negative effect on the middle and lower class families in America. Does this sound like a plan that will help or hurt the average American?

****************************

Now luciano, please address these issues and tell me again how you have faith in the Messiah's plans for this country. Tell me some more, about how "partisan" and "un-patriotic" I'm being. Then to top it off, why don't you blame Bush some more, and tell me how everything I just posted was nothing more than republican lies.

The ball is in your court pal.
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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by luciano on Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:24 pm

Dont you start yer bitching if it takes me a bit............ Very Happy

But I promise I will answer you, real soon, Im going to eat supper..........

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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by luciano on Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:30 pm

Are the following statements "true" or "false":

1. Obama is responsible for a budget deficit that's approximately 4 times greater than any budget deficit in US history.

2. Obama has said that his stimulus package, tarp and budget are designed to (among other things) bail out the financial sector, stimulate the economy, create and save American jobs, along with providing economic relief to middle and lower income families.

3. Obama and House democrats this week, insisted that despite record government spending and huge national deficits, the presidents budget will include and/or protect his 5 priorities:
a) Health Care - a national health care program
b) Energy - a Cap & Trade policy and alternative energy programs.
c) Education - More public school programs
d) Tax Relief - Aimed at the middle class and below
e) Deficit - Cutting the budget deficit in half in 4 years.

4. Assuming the above is true, to pay for all this deficit spending, the government can:
a) Borrow the money from foreign sources by getting countries like China to purchase interest bearing treasury bonds.
b) Have the Federal Reserve print more money.
c) Substantially raise taxes across the board.
d) Any or all of the above.

5. Introducing more money into the system from the Federal Reserve, de-values the dollar, which in turn results in inflation (higher prices for goods), and has the potential to cause hyper-inflation and collapse the US economy.

6. Obama has stated he will raise corporate taxes on both big and small businesses, and raise taxes on upper income families.

1. I dont know, maybe?

2. True


3. True

4. True Very Happy

5. True

6. True

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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by Grim17 on Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:45 pm

What about the facts I posted about each of them?

If you have no dispute with what I posted, then please explain how in the hell you can still proclaim that you have faith in Obama. Then you can explain how I am somehow putting my party ahead of my country.
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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by luciano on Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:50 am

Grim17 wrote:
If you have no dispute with what I posted, then please explain how in the hell you can still proclaim that you have faith in Obama.

I think his spending plan(ARRP) is gonna revitalize America, it may take a few years, but I believe we will come back stronger than ever, hopefully we can beat back the inflation a bit but remember this stimulus is a long program, going all the way into 2013 I believe. Where they are putting the money is some long needed rebuilding of America, private contractors will get many of these bids(these are multi-million dollar concrete, maintenance, railroad, school contracts), these people are gonna be hiring more people. Investing back into the infrastructure of this country, is also re-investing in the builders, construction firms, etc of America. Those people collect their paycheck and spend the cash here, the contractors take care of past credit debts, invest in their company, etc. I think this is the best stimulus plan we have seen yet, it will actually "stimulate", its not just dumping cash all in one go. This money will be re-cycled back into the economy over and over IMO. If Im gonna get behind a stimulus, it's gonna be something like this. Give it a chance is all Im asking. Unemployment was up again in March, but February Factory orders were up almost 2%, things are starting to turn around.

You dont want me to bash Bush, dont bring up TARP. Im not wild about the way the whole TARP thing went down, and no one else with 2 eyes and ears should be either. This was another example of Bush just blatantly lieing to the public to get support for something( a la Iraq) and then just totally disregarded what they told they were gonna do with the money in the first place.

Then you can explain how I am somehow putting my party ahead of my country.

Oh you just being a foot soldier, spreading the opposition propaganda, you know doing your part for the party by posting a couple threads a day with the same ole speculative trash that Obama is running us into the ground, etc, etc. It's all speculation, but the good news for Obama is the republicans are usually horribly wrong, lol. Look at the last 8 years. You cant say "oh, Bush was just the moron", some of them followed him up to the very end. If there was any time in this country's history when people should put down the politics for a bit and work together, it is now. Just your negativeness, I dont think he's has overseen any disasters yet to deserve that negativeness. But w/e keep telling yourself whatever you need to.

What about the facts I posted about each of them?


3.A. Worries me, Im not gonna lie, if he really wants to go nationalized Im worried, Im not sure a true nationalized healthcare program can work in America, but Im willing to wait and see what the plan is. I do think everyone deserves healthcare but I dont think at the expense of other people, I dont think you mess with peoples healthcare(degrading some to upgrade others), seriously its not money, its someones life, people who have insurance are used to a certain quality of care. But lets wait and see, I dont believe I have heard them actually say "nationalized" yet. More speculation?

3. B. Sure

3. C. Um yeah, our public schools are a joke, look at every standardized test scores for Baltimore inner city, Washington D.C and even my city of Pittsburgh, the inner city youths are failing miserably, it's time for a new approach, the way you did things 20 years ago will not work with the kids today, you have to constantly adapt, people change, they have to find a way to reach these children, they are vital to this country's future. You might not like the way they wear their pants below their underwear, but parents in 60's didnt like rocknroll and long hair. Teachers found a way to reach those "lost youths", we need a new approach for these one, no matter how goofy they look Smile. Its been a long trend that American schools are much farther behind than a lot of the countries of the world, especially our friends/business rivals, japan, China, a lot of Europe are outperforming American children. This has a lot to do with why things are the way they are IMO.

3. D. Yes, absolutely, time for the privelidged to pay their dues, sacrifice. I dont think Obama is reading straight out the Carl Marx playbook and wants to make this a permanent thing. Maybe the middle class will finally get a break???!!!

3. E. I believe it, he is at least investing in the country so the chances are much higher it will actually work, Im gonna predict he comes up a little short though, but he will come very close. I think the current trend of Republican president=failing economy, Democratic president=economy on the way up will continue. If he gets 8 years, I wouldnt be surprised to see us on the plus side again. Thats me speculating. Optimism, I want our country to succeed.

#4. As much as I dont want to say it, I say get it off China, if we go down, they take a hit too, raising taxes will also be part of it. I hope they avoid printing more money if at all possible. We are tetering on the edge of the dollar collapsing.

Put a little faith in a democrat.


I will say this, I wish he would change the rules on the $250,000 tax thing, a lot of small business wont be able to stay alive if the tax raise is substantial, but big business should be paying their dues.

Regulate again, it has to be done, you cannot let them run wild. YOU CAN HAVE A FREE MARKET and STILL HAVE REGULATIONS. You cannot have a free market when the governement is in the middle of it, but if we had regulation, they might not be in the middle of it now, owning banks and whatnot.

Thats my 2 bits. I do not see Obama as Marx like you and your ilk portray him to be.

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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by Jax74 on Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:04 pm

Luciano, you are trying to make it sound as though its just republicans who are predicting gloom and doom and wont give him a chance. Many many sources are predicting that this method is going to produce massive deficits and hyper inflation. Its not just republicans. Did you see the thread about how large the deficits will actually be? Those numbers were done by the CBO and the wall street journal. Hardly republican lap dogs. Almost all credible independant financial sources are predicting that the deficits are going to be much much larger than what Obama is saying they will be. In one article it refers to his numbers as "the mistake he is making", I believe hes just flat lieing. He has a history of saying things everyone wants to hear and then doing the exact opposite. Sure all politicians do that to some degree but Obama has taken that trend to unprecedented levels.

I have asked this question before, when was the last time borrowing and spending insane, unprecedented amounts of money the best way to get out of debt?

Not to mention the latest budget with the most pork ever in the history of our country. I seem to remember during the campaign hearing Obama promise to go thru budgets line by line and cut out pork. Line by Line and cut out the pork! Those are his words during the campaign. Hell, the first budget that comes around and he doesnt even put up a fight. Sounds like he lied to me, and thats just one example.

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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by Old Timer on Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:31 pm

Jax74 wrote:Luciano, you are trying to make it sound as though its just republicans who are predicting gloom and doom and wont give him a chance. Many many sources are predicting that this method is going to produce massive deficits and hyper inflation. Its not just republicans. Did you see the thread about how large the deficits will actually be? Those numbers were done by the CBO and the wall street journal. Hardly republican lap dogs. Almost all credible independant financial sources are predicting that the deficits are going to be much much larger than what Obama is saying they will be. In one article it refers to his numbers as "the mistake he is making", I believe hes just flat lieing. He has a history of saying things everyone wants to hear and then doing the exact opposite. Sure all politicians do that to some degree but Obama has taken that trend to unprecedented levels.

I have asked this question before, when was the last time borrowing and spending insane, unprecedented amounts of money the best way to get out of debt?

Not to mention the latest budget with the most pork ever in the history of our country. I seem to remember during the campaign hearing Obama promise to go thru budgets line by line and cut out pork. Line by Line and cut out the pork! Those are his words during the campaign. Hell, the first budget that comes around and he doesnt even put up a fight. Sounds like he lied to me, and thats just one example.

Doesn't it still all boil down to one thing, his lack of experience. Oh sure he is a great dresser and he is a great speaker and tells the American public just what they wanted to hear. And like so many others before him he makes promise after promise. But this time we really need someone that doesn't want to change our government into what it was not designed to be. But rather help make it stronger. We are facing a really tough time here folks. But we have been there before and have bounced back and we will do so again. But not unless we are able to get a better leader that really has some idea of what is going on and what to do to fix and repair the system not bring it further down. Obama has absoultly no business being in that office. Under normal circumstances he would not have even been considered. And before it is all over I am afraid that it will get a lot worse long before it gets any better.

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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by Jax74 on Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:48 pm

Old Timer wrote:
Jax74 wrote:Luciano, you are trying to make it sound as though its just republicans who are predicting gloom and doom and wont give him a chance. Many many sources are predicting that this method is going to produce massive deficits and hyper inflation. Its not just republicans. Did you see the thread about how large the deficits will actually be? Those numbers were done by the CBO and the wall street journal. Hardly republican lap dogs. Almost all credible independant financial sources are predicting that the deficits are going to be much much larger than what Obama is saying they will be. In one article it refers to his numbers as "the mistake he is making", I believe hes just flat lieing. He has a history of saying things everyone wants to hear and then doing the exact opposite. Sure all politicians do that to some degree but Obama has taken that trend to unprecedented levels.

I have asked this question before, when was the last time borrowing and spending insane, unprecedented amounts of money the best way to get out of debt?

Not to mention the latest budget with the most pork ever in the history of our country. I seem to remember during the campaign hearing Obama promise to go thru budgets line by line and cut out pork. Line by Line and cut out the pork! Those are his words during the campaign. Hell, the first budget that comes around and he doesnt even put up a fight. Sounds like he lied to me, and thats just one example.

Doesn't it still all boil down to one thing, his lack of experience. Oh sure he is a great dresser and he is a great speaker and tells the American public just what they wanted to hear. And like so many others before him he makes promise after promise. But this time we really need someone that doesn't want to change our government into what it was not designed to be. But rather help make it stronger. We are facing a really tough time here folks. But we have been there before and have bounced back and we will do so again. But not unless we are able to get a better leader that really has some idea of what is going on and what to do to fix and repair the system not bring it further down. Obama has absoultly no business being in that office. Under normal circumstances he would not have even been considered. And before it is all over I am afraid that it will get a lot worse long before it gets any better.


Whats sad is he is trying to influence and control all these companies and our economy. Do you think there is even one large company that he would be qualified to be CEO of? Even one? I doubt he would ever be hired as a CEO for any company but hes trying to weild tremendous influence over so many economic situations.

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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by Grim17 on Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:28 pm

Jax74 wrote:Luciano, you are trying to make it sound as though its just republicans who are predicting gloom and doom and wont give him a chance. Many many sources are predicting that this method is going to produce massive deficits and hyper inflation. Its not just republicans. Did you see the thread about how large the deficits will actually be? Those numbers were done by the CBO and the wall street journal. Hardly republican lap dogs. Almost all credible independant financial sources are predicting that the deficits are going to be much much larger than what Obama is saying they will be. In one article it refers to his numbers as "the mistake he is making", I believe hes just flat lieing. He has a history of saying things everyone wants to hear and then doing the exact opposite. Sure all politicians do that to some degree but Obama has taken that trend to unprecedented levels.

I have asked this question before, when was the last time borrowing and spending insane, unprecedented amounts of money the best way to get out of debt?

Not to mention the latest budget with the most pork ever in the history of our country. I seem to remember during the campaign hearing Obama promise to go thru budgets line by line and cut out pork. Line by Line and cut out the pork! Those are his words during the campaign. Hell, the first budget that comes around and he doesnt even put up a fight. Sounds like he lied to me, and thats just one example.

Hey Jax, after reading what luciano had to say, believe it or not I am at a complete loss. I don't have a clue how to respond to him, and that's why thus far, I haven't. It isn't because he's made such compelling arguments, or presented facts I can't object to. In fact, it's quite the opposite.

He has completely ignored or brushed off every single thing I presented, and pretended that it's nothing but partisan bullshit. He has ignored that people within Obama's own administration are some of the people telling us that Obama's spending is threatening the economic well being of the country.

I mean, how do you debate with someone who refuses to acknowledge the simplest of facts? In his first paragraph alone, he pledges his support for the stimulus package, saying that it is a long term plan that won't take effect immediately. That's just a load of bullshit. Most economists, including the Congressional Budget Office, say that the stimulus plan may yield some short term economic benefits, but in the long term (8-10 years from now) it will create big problems for the US economy.

Everything he says seems to be based on "George Bush". He uses Bush as an excuse for all the problems, rather than focusing on the solutions that Obama is presenting. He seems to agree with the figures I presented about his budget, yet doesn't have a problem with those numbers... How do you have a conversation with someone so mesmerized by "Hope & Change" that they can't do the math?
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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by Old Timer on Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:26 am

On this mornings news they said that unemployment is now over 13,000,000 and climbing. Interviews with both McDonalds and Subway managers show that there are college grads and even chefs that are unable to find jobs applying for work there.

Yesterday the park service said that visitors at the park ( Yeloowstone ) during the winter was 13,000 less than the previous year and that reservations at the parks hotels are down over 30 % so far for this summer. My wife who works at Motel six has said that there are a lot more folks coming in looking for work here to. Here at the apartment complex where we live a lot of folks have had to move out because of no work. Prices here are starting to go way up for a lot of items. For example some cuts of good beef range from 11 to 21 dollars a pound and cooked chicken at the deli like chicken strips are now 6.99 a pound. And it is only getting worse. Seems like only the politiscians pocketbooks are getting stimulated

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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by Old Timer on Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:26 pm

Well a day later and I read that now there are 7 homes that have been foreclosed on here in the land of the millionaires. One of them is a townhome that was appraised at almost 400,000. the asking price at the auction for it was only 250,000 for the first bid. but no one bid on it. A small bag of lays potato chips is now 3.99 a bag. Pringles are now 1.99 a can. It is starting to get scary here, reservations for the summer are way down in the park as well as in town. What's next? Maybe the volcano, huh. Very Happy

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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by Jax74 on Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:39 pm

Grim17 wrote:
Jax74 wrote:Luciano, you are trying to make it sound as though its just republicans who are predicting gloom and doom and wont give him a chance. Many many sources are predicting that this method is going to produce massive deficits and hyper inflation. Its not just republicans. Did you see the thread about how large the deficits will actually be? Those numbers were done by the CBO and the wall street journal. Hardly republican lap dogs. Almost all credible independant financial sources are predicting that the deficits are going to be much much larger than what Obama is saying they will be. In one article it refers to his numbers as "the mistake he is making", I believe hes just flat lieing. He has a history of saying things everyone wants to hear and then doing the exact opposite. Sure all politicians do that to some degree but Obama has taken that trend to unprecedented levels.

I have asked this question before, when was the last time borrowing and spending insane, unprecedented amounts of money the best way to get out of debt?

Not to mention the latest budget with the most pork ever in the history of our country. I seem to remember during the campaign hearing Obama promise to go thru budgets line by line and cut out pork. Line by Line and cut out the pork! Those are his words during the campaign. Hell, the first budget that comes around and he doesnt even put up a fight. Sounds like he lied to me, and thats just one example.

Hey Jax, after reading what luciano had to say, believe it or not I am at a complete loss. I don't have a clue how to respond to him, and that's why thus far, I haven't. It isn't because he's made such compelling arguments, or presented facts I can't object to. In fact, it's quite the opposite.

He has completely ignored or brushed off every single thing I presented, and pretended that it's nothing but partisan bullshit. He has ignored that people within Obama's own administration are some of the people telling us that Obama's spending is threatening the economic well being of the country.

I mean, how do you debate with someone who refuses to acknowledge the simplest of facts? In his first paragraph alone, he pledges his support for the stimulus package, saying that it is a long term plan that won't take effect immediately. That's just a load of bullshit. Most economists, including the Congressional Budget Office, say that the stimulus plan may yield some short term economic benefits, but in the long term (8-10 years from now) it will create big problems for the US economy.

Everything he says seems to be based on "George Bush". He uses Bush as an excuse for all the problems, rather than focusing on the solutions that Obama is presenting. He seems to agree with the figures I presented about his budget, yet doesn't have a problem with those numbers... How do you have a conversation with someone so mesmerized by "Hope & Change" that they can't do the math?


I know what you mean. I have a brother who voted for Obama and now when I ask him about the things Obama is doing he just pulls the same old, "well all politicians lie in campaigns and they all do stuff like this". And Im just thinking, do you even remember what he campaigned on? Do you remember all the promises he made that have now been broken in only 3 months in office? How much longer is everything going to be Bushes fault?

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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by Old Timer on Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:38 pm

Jax74 wrote:
Grim17 wrote:
Jax74 wrote:Luciano, you are trying to make it sound as though its just republicans who are predicting gloom and doom and wont give him a chance. Many many sources are predicting that this method is going to produce massive deficits and hyper inflation. Its not just republicans. Did you see the thread about how large the deficits will actually be? Those numbers were done by the CBO and the wall street journal. Hardly republican lap dogs. Almost all credible independant financial sources are predicting that the deficits are going to be much much larger than what Obama is saying they will be. In one article it refers to his numbers as "the mistake he is making", I believe hes just flat lieing. He has a history of saying things everyone wants to hear and then doing the exact opposite. Sure all politicians do that to some degree but Obama has taken that trend to unprecedented levels.

I have asked this question before, when was the last time borrowing and spending insane, unprecedented amounts of money the best way to get out of debt?

Not to mention the latest budget with the most pork ever in the history of our country. I seem to remember during the campaign hearing Obama promise to go thru budgets line by line and cut out pork. Line by Line and cut out the pork! Those are his words during the campaign. Hell, the first budget that comes around and he doesnt even put up a fight. Sounds like he lied to me, and thats just one example.

Hey Jax, after reading what luciano had to say, believe it or not I am at a complete loss. I don't have a clue how to respond to him, and that's why thus far, I haven't. It isn't because he's made such compelling arguments, or presented facts I can't object to. In fact, it's quite the opposite.

He has completely ignored or brushed off every single thing I presented, and pretended that it's nothing but partisan bullshit. He has ignored that people within Obama's own administration are some of the people telling us that Obama's spending is threatening the economic well being of the country.

I mean, how do you debate with someone who refuses to acknowledge the simplest of facts? In his first paragraph alone, he pledges his support for the stimulus package, saying that it is a long term plan that won't take effect immediately. That's just a load of bullshit. Most economists, including the Congressional Budget Office, say that the stimulus plan may yield some short term economic benefits, but in the long term (8-10 years from now) it will create big problems for the US economy.

Everything he says seems to be based on "George Bush". He uses Bush as an excuse for all the problems, rather than focusing on the solutions that Obama is presenting. He seems to agree with the figures I presented about his budget, yet doesn't have a problem with those numbers... How do you have a conversation with someone so mesmerized by "Hope & Change" that they can't do the math?


I know what you mean. I have a brother who voted for Obama and now when I ask him about the things Obama is doing he just pulls the same old, "well all politicians lie in campaigns and they all do stuff like this". And Im just thinking, do you even remember what he campaigned on? Do you remember all the promises he made that have now been broken in only 3 months in office? How much longer is everything going to be Bushes fault?

Once the newness wears off and the true person shines through and folks can see what an idiot they have been and what they have really put in office, the fun will really start trying to get him out of there.

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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by HotParadox on Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:16 pm

he's not going anywhere. and he'll go the full 2 terms. it's how it's gonna go down.

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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by Theophilus on Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:02 pm

HotParadox wrote:he's not going anywhere. and he'll go the full 2 terms. it's how it's gonna go down.

I agree with that.

I have noticed freight is picking up quite a bit. I have been keeping real busy lately. Where as about six weeks ago I was hardly moving any freight. So Americans are buying more at this moment. This could be due to people having confidence in Obama, and the democrats.

I don't see things ever returning to way they were, where the economy is concerned.

I don't foresee growth at the rates we were used to.

I do see however growth at a steady rate. A NORMAL rate.

My hope would be to see a real focus on small business. I would like to see tax cuts, and tax incentives for small business.

As far as the government goes. I would like to spending on R&D for new energies to power this country. That will really help us out. Once we do that, we can sell that new tech to the world.

Perhaps spend some taxpayers money making it easier for people to go to college. I think that could really pay off for us in the future.

Well as far as Obama goes. I am moving more freight, and the economy is picking up. I don't know for certain if this would not of happened with or without Obama. I guess history will tell.

So far I am not complaining about getting a decent paycheck again.

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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by HotParadox on Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:34 pm

Theophilus wrote:
HotParadox wrote:he's not going anywhere. and he'll go the full 2 terms. it's how it's gonna go down.

I agree with that.

I have noticed freight is picking up quite a bit. I have been keeping real busy lately. Where as about six weeks ago I was hardly moving any freight. So Americans are buying more at this moment. This could be due to people having confidence in Obama, and the democrats.

I don't see things ever returning to way they were, where the economy is concerned.

I don't foresee growth at the rates we were used to.

I do see however growth at a steady rate. A NORMAL rate.

My hope would be to see a real focus on small business. I would like to see tax cuts, and tax incentives for small business.

As far as the government goes. I would like to spending on R&D for new energies to power this country. That will really help us out. Once we do that, we can sell that new tech to the world.

Perhaps spend some taxpayers money making it easier for people to go to college. I think that could really pay off for us in the future.

Well as far as Obama goes. I am moving more freight, and the economy is picking up. I don't know for certain if this would not of happened with or without Obama. I guess history will tell.

So far I am not complaining about getting a decent paycheck again.
i'm relieved to hear that things are picking in your industry because, as you say, that means that people are beginning to spend money and are finally starting to have faith in the system again. of course, not all industries are doing well, but they will. although we haven't seen anything this bad, at least in my lifetime, the economy and it effects are cyclical. i'm happy that things are on the upswing for you, t.

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Re: Has Obamamania reached its limit?

Post by Old Timer on Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:12 pm

HotParadox wrote:
Theophilus wrote:
HotParadox wrote:he's not going anywhere. and he'll go the full 2 terms. it's how it's gonna go down.

I agree with that.

I have noticed freight is picking up quite a bit. I have been keeping real busy lately. Where as about six weeks ago I was hardly moving any freight. So Americans are buying more at this moment. This could be due to people having confidence in Obama, and the democrats.

I don't see things ever returning to way they were, where the economy is concerned.

I don't foresee growth at the rates we were used to.

I do see however growth at a steady rate. A NORMAL rate.

My hope would be to see a real focus on small business. I would like to see tax cuts, and tax incentives for small business.

As far as the government goes. I would like to spending on R&D for new energies to power this country. That will really help us out. Once we do that, we can sell that new tech to the world.

Perhaps spend some taxpayers money making it easier for people to go to college. I think that could really pay off for us in the future.

Well as far as Obama goes. I am moving more freight, and the economy is picking up. I don't know for certain if this would not of happened with or without Obama. I guess history will tell.

So far I am not complaining about getting a decent paycheck again.
i'm relieved to hear that things are picking in your industry because, as you say, that means that people are beginning to spend money and are finally starting to have faith in the system again. of course, not all industries are doing well, but they will. although we haven't seen anything this bad, at least in my lifetime, the economy and it effects are cyclical. i'm happy that things are on the upswing for you, t.

Yeah, great to hear ya is making a dollar or two. All the best to ya buddy. And drive safe. sunny

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